24-04-2002 21:15									#1
	What's with Civ3 in the small box??? Put an end to popups!

I was in Walmart today and could not believe my eyes when I went to the software department. There on the shelf was Civ3 in one of those small boxes --you know,5x7 or 4x6.

It was heavy so I am sure there is some sort of manual inside. But it could not be big and the print would have to by very small if all is included.

And for the same old price of $39.

What are we coming to? Has anyone actually seen the manual that comes with the small box?

Thank God I bought Civ3 when it first came out!

sboog

	24-04-2002 21:37									#2
	Re: What's with Civ3 in the small box??? Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by sboog Has anyone actually seen the manual that comes with the small box? sboog

No. But regardless, you'll learn more about playing Civ3 reading these boards for a few hours than you will reading the entire manual.

I wonder how long it will take to see Civ3 on the shelf in the CD case only?

	24-04-2002 22:11									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I think "the industry" is going to this size. I have seen several games sold in this size box. Personnally, I like it. I'm sure the industry and retailers like it as they can put the same amount of games on a smaller retail area.

	24-04-2002 22:12									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

This seems to be the trend now for all new computer games. They are packing them in smaller boxes to cut costs I suppose.

It's very easy now to confuse a pcgame with an xbox game now!

	25-04-2002 00:03									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The smaller box, the game does not come with a printed manual, it is on the cd. Thus they cut the cost of the game by 10 bucks. Usually the game is 49.99, but without the printed manual it is 39.99. I think that this is a great idea. I hardly ever use the stupid manual, and find it more fun to fugre out on our own how to play the game. I dont mind reading the manual on a computer screen, and you can always printed it out your self.

	25-04-2002 00:12									#6
	No printed manuals in computer games is unf*&^ingacceptable Tired of ads?

Called me old fashioned but I like the printed manuals that come with computer games. Remember SMAC, Civ2, Imperialism1&2, CTP series, etc. etc. All of those games had great manuals that aided greatly in playing the games. In addition I find it entertaining to read about my games in paper form.

For the game manufacturers to give us PDF format manuals that we must print out in order to read comfortably is extortion. They (game makers) are chiseling more money out of us while giving us less. This IMO is sad. It will certainly hurt the industry. I for one don't like paying more for less. Do you?

	25-04-2002 00:15									#7
	Tired of ads?

As of now they sell both versions. One with a printed manual, and one in pdf format. I think this is great for someone who does not have a lot of money. Man I'll take the cheeper version, I dont mind printing it out, besides it saves paper.

	25-04-2002 00:53									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I was confused when I saw games being released like that. I thought I was buying a $60 VHS tape.

	25-04-2002 01:13									#9
	Tired of ads?

You were confused

	25-04-2002 01:17									#10
	Support Apolyton

As a student of environmental health, I think it is good to size down the boxes and just have the manual on the CD - it definitly saves paper! However, I agree that it sure is a better feeling to read the manual in paper. It is also easier to check it during gameplay so you donīt have to switch windows all the time.

	25-04-2002 02:00									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

But the small Civ3 box I saw at Wal Mart was HEAVY. There had to be more in there than just a CD. But if there was a manual, the print would have to be very small.

Most games with no manual except in PDF form sell for $9.98. But $39 for this little box???

sboog

	25-04-2002 02:51									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Given the fact that Soren took almost all of the gameplay out of Civ when he made it, as well as all the fun, I would think they could probably fit it on a floppy. The game is so simple, you could print a representative manual on a floppy label.

And if you found it in a small but nonetheless heavy package, I would assume they put a rock in it. Anyone who finds themselves having paid for this product is likely to feel like banging their head against a hard object.

	25-04-2002 02:57									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

Its obviously a ploy of some sort involving the gaming industry, the CIA, and the Greek Universities

	25-04-2002 03:15									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Given the fact that Soren took almost all of the gameplay out of Civ when he made it, as well as all the fun, I would think they could probably fit it on a floppy. The game is so simple, you could print a representative manual on a floppy label. And if you found it in a small but nonetheless heavy package, I would assume they put a rock in it. Anyone who finds themselves having paid for this product is likely to feel like banging their head against a hard object.

You must really have nothing better to do than posting the same drivel about how you don't like the game over and over again. I feel sorry for you.

	25-04-2002 03:17									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Truly. He's getting to be no better than Coracle at this point... which is really saying something. jt, I've seen from some of your previous post that you're better than that. Don't drag yourself in the mud.

	25-04-2002 04:10									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by sboog But the small Civ3 box I saw at Wal Mart was HEAVY. There had to be more in there than just a CD. But if there was a manual, the print would have to be very small. Most games with no manual except in PDF form sell for $9.98. But $39 for this little box??? sboog

The only games I have seen for $10.00(US) are etheir old games they dont make any more, or cheap games that come in a cd case. It is still a new game, so they are still going to charge you for it. They they do is take out the manual and put in pdf form on the cd. I think that it is a reasonable price. When I got Sim City 3000 it was in one of those small boxes. It had a little booklet on how to install the game and trouble shooting stuff. The manual is on the cd in pdf form.

	25-04-2002 04:20									#17
	Support Apolyton

I have seen many games in these small boxes, and I think its a great idea.

I bought Warcraft II Battle.net edition for $4.99, and it was easily worth 20 bucks or more. I paid $5.39 for CivII MGE, and $9.99 for Fallout I and II. Its fun to pay such paltry sums for really great games that you woudl be willing to pay much more for. It feels like you're ripping the store off.

Steele

	25-04-2002 05:01									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wonder how long before Civ 3 makes it into the Discount bin for $19.95?? I say by September.

	25-04-2002 05:49									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Coracle Wonder how long before Civ 3 makes it into the Discount bin for $19.95?? I say by September.

I'd would have said july.

	25-04-2002 06:48									#20
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I get most games a year after they come out at prices ranging from 20-30 dollars, from some source or another. Is it supposed to be a bad thing that it may be going for 19.95 later this year? If so, let me remind you that your pessimism doesn't change the fact that Civ3 has actually sold quite well, and providing an XP comes out, more copies are likely to be sold.

	25-04-2002 06:59									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 I get most games a year after they come out at prices ranging from 20-30 dollars, from some source or another. Is it supposed to be a bad thing that it may be going for 19.95 later this year? If so, let me remind you that your pessimism doesn't change the fact that Civ3 has actually sold quite well, and providing an XP comes out, more copies are likely to be sold.

I didn't say it didn't sell well. However, I do think the market for Civ3 is saturated to a certain degree. All your hardcore Civ3 player must of bought it by now, as well as the casual TBS/RTS players. All you have left are those who can wait a year for the price to drop.

	25-04-2002 17:00									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

My Civ3 came in a big box with a manual.

Since the manual isn't really useful, guess I'd rather had the small box to have something where to put the cd for those occasional moments when it's not in the drive.
Case for the cd would have been nice in the big box too, I don't trust those paper envelopes enough to keep my cds in them.

Speaking of boxes, whats different with "Civilization III Collector's Edition" my supplier has in their catalog?

	25-04-2002 21:14									#23
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Just the other day when I was at Best Buy I saw Empire Earth in one of those small boxes, and they had them in the big box too. The one in the big box was $49.99(US) and the small box was $39.99(US). I am going to get the one in th small box very soon.

	25-04-2002 23:42									#24
	Increase Your PM Length

If I really want those PDF manuals, I'll just print them out at work.

	25-04-2002 23:56									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by dunk999 If I really want those PDF manuals, I'll just print them out at work.

I love printing out all the strategies I read about at Apolyton at work!

	26-04-2002 00:19									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich I love printing out all the strategies I read about at Apolyton at work!

Me too, until I got in trouble.


Now I have to resort to my slow hp deskjet.

	26-04-2002 01:28									#27
	Re: No printed manuals in computer games is unf*&^ingacceptable Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich Called me old fashioned but I like the printed manuals that come with computer games. Remember SMAC, Civ2, Imperialism1&2, CTP series, etc. etc. All of those games had great manuals that aided greatly in playing the games. In addition I find it entertaining to read about my games in paper form. For the game manufacturers to give us PDF format manuals that we must print out in order to read comfortably is extortion. They (game makers) are chiseling more money out of us while giving us less. This IMO is sad. It will certainly hurt the industry. I for one don't like paying more for less. Do you?

Well then think about it in environmental terms. With fewer paper manuals, less trees need to be cut down in order to manufacture them. They're just being socially responsible, and saving some money in the process. What's so wrong about that?

	26-04-2002 12:13									#28
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Willem, i fully agree with that. Even if many ppl just print out the pdf-files, many donīt feel like itīs worth it. And for example Civ III and SimCity 3000, both sequels to a game that many have played before, many players already know the basics and just needs to upgrade their knowledges about the new game. Therefore, they may just need to take a glance on the pdf:s. However, I bought a somewhat advanced flight sim a few years ago, and there was only this pdf-manual coming on the CD (there were actually two CD:s, one with the game itself and the other one with helpfiles and readme). Then it was rather hard to sit for a very long time reading through that manual on-screen. I havenīt got a printer, so I couldnīt print it out either. In that case, I would really have liked to have a printed manual to read while I was playing, and to read even when I wasnīt plaing. They are very good evening lecture you know!

	26-04-2002 17:21									#29
	Re: Re: No printed manuals in computer games is unf*&^ingacceptable Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Willem Well then think about it in environmental terms. With fewer paper manuals, less trees need to be cut down in order to manufacture them. They're just being socially responsible, and saving some money in the process. What's so wrong about that?

If one resorts to printing out reams of paper from a pdf then trees are being killed anyway. It is also very difficult, at least for me anyway, to read a manual on screen and then switching tasks back to the game. Alternatively if you read the manual on screen prior to playing one might not remember all the explanations from the manual. Having a nice manual by your side while playing sure is great. I guess what my point is why should I be made to print my own manual when I paid real money for the game.

Imagine if everything you bought had a pdf manual on cd. Before you can use that fancy new dvd player, electric iron, washing machine, you have to go to your computer and print out or read the manual on screen. Frustrating I suspect. Many many neighborhoods in the USA do have recycling programs. I participate religiously in recycling cereal boxes, bottles, newspapers, etc. They could just use recycled paper to make the game manuals for us.

Just a friendly thought...........

	26-04-2002 20:39									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I've already said lots about this on the 'Other Games' forum in reference to the European version of Might and Magic IX and HOMM IV. They are just as expensive as the big box version of the games but come with the manual and some reference cards on .pdf only. The industry is slowly moving en-masse to the DvD sized boxes. The driving factors are retailers shelf space and packaging cost. In Europe almost all titles have been released in this size for several months. Those that need little or no documentation have even adopted the standard DvD plastic box.

Switching to slimline or .pdf manuals is a side effect which you will either love or hate. For key game information I insist on paper reference sheets and manuals and agree wholehearily with Haupt D. If its thirty pages of flannel on how archwizard Zobgobbivirel Vlampo VIX lost his Nerfstick of Knobbliness down the evil goddess Vishinka's fluffridden bellybutton and wants you to get it back, it can save a tree, go on the disk and never get read