25-04-2002 17:18									#1
	Samurai Support Apolyton

Just had a thought.

Shouldn't samurai be ugraded from the swordsman rather than the horseman as the samurai is not mounted and shouldn't require horses. Additionally, samurai shouldn't be upgradable to cavalry, again because they are unhorsed.


They could still be obtained under chivalry, but would just follow a different upgrade path. Samurai have to be one of the best UU of all the civs and therefore making them upgradable from swordsmen and not upgradable to cavalry would serve to bring them more back in line with the others.

What do you reckon?

	25-04-2002 18:24									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I agree with the first part, but I think its okay to upgrade Samuri to Cavalry. That would be the next logical step.

	25-04-2002 18:25									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

And plus, for the sake of gameplay balance, it wouldn't put the Japanese at a disadvantage.

	25-04-2002 18:41									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think the whole upgrade thing is questionable and I'd mod my game to do away with it. Unfortunately, I think that would be even worse since the AI doesnt seem to disband obselete units and I hate seeing longbowmen attacking tanks.

If upgrades were more gradual (as they were in SMAC) it would make more sense to me. Fortunately, with the new editor functions this becomes more possible so we can have spearman->bronze spearman-> iron spearman-> with increases in HP as the quality of armour improves.

	25-04-2002 19:06									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I like it, upgrading Samurai from swordsman. I'll do it right away.

	25-04-2002 19:10									#6
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I think the whole upgrade thing is questionable and I'd mod my game to do away with it. Unfortunately, I think that would be even worse since the AI doesnt seem to disband obselete units and I hate seeing longbowmen attacking tanks. If upgrades were more gradual (as they were in SMAC) it would make more sense to me. Fortunately, with the new editor functions this becomes more possible so we can have spearman->bronze spearman-> iron spearman-> with increases in HP as the quality of armour improves.

It is questionable, but given the way the rest of the game is organized, its the best solution. The real problem is the production model is flawed.

	25-04-2002 22:03									#7
	Re: Samurai Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by =DrJambo= Just had a thought. Shouldn't samurai be ugraded from the swordsman rather than the horseman as the samurai is not mounted and shouldn't require horses. Additionally, samurai shouldn't be upgradable to cavalry, again because they are unhorsed. They could still be obtained under chivalry, but would just follow a different upgrade path. Samurai have to be one of the best UU of all the civs and therefore making them upgradable from swordsmen and not upgradable to cavalry would serve to bring them more back in line with the others. What do you reckon?

I think this works, except for one thing: The Samurai were, historically speaking, mounted, though they didn't use their swords from their mounts; they were mounted bowmen. They were, however, also phenomenal swordsmen and martial artists in general, and at certain times in their history, warfare was more a matter of individual combats between samurai rather than actual open warfare. (At certain other points, like the wars that resulted in the founding of the shogunate, it was a matter of modern musket based warfare.)

	25-04-2002 22:07									#8
	Re: Samurai Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by =DrJambo= Shouldn't samurai be ugraded from the swordsman rather than the horseman as the samurai is not mounted and shouldn't require horses. Additionally, samurai shouldn't be upgradable to cavalry, again because they are unhorsed.

I believe Historically that Samurai were mostly mounted for battle, more like Knights rather than foot soldiers. Thus fitting the current Civ III upgrade path. (they also have a move of 2)

Of course I am no expert on the Japanese Millitary....

	25-04-2002 22:09									#9
	Support Apolyton

Oh bugger

....beaten in speed and Content!

typical

	25-04-2002 22:10									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

... DP

sheesh!