25-04-2002 21:48									#1
	Oracle or Pyramids? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

At the start of the game you can build the Pyramids almost right away depending on your civ and wonder selection. The Oracle comes soon after. I am a big Pyramid fan from civ 1 because of all the granaries you get for free, but is the Oracle worth using valuable early game production for? I usually just let the computer get it.

	25-04-2002 21:56									#2
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The Oracle is a high culture wonder that comes very early, which means if you keep it all the way to the modern age, it, first off, is producing a lot as it is (time improves culture value for buildings), and secondly, has produced a lot of culture throughout the game, giving you a considerable edge.

I'd say its worth building.

	25-04-2002 22:07									#3
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If you're gonna build one or the other, I'd go with the Pyramids. Then again, that one tends to be hotly contested by the AI.

-Arrian

	25-04-2002 22:12									#4
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The problem with the oracle in Civ2 was that it went obsolete so quickly... but I don't remember when it expires in Civ3. I usually go for the Pyramids for quick expansion.

	25-04-2002 22:28									#5
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If you can get them they're both good for culture, but I find that the AI usually gets them first (Monarch and up) so I dont even bother.

	25-04-2002 22:31									#6
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The pyramids give you the bonus of being able to outpace the AI land grab. The Oracle has the awesome culture potential, as Ironwood points out. As with most elements of the civ series, each has its place, depending on your game.

I never get either anyway - too busy claiming real estate, and nary a leader before better wonders have been available.

	25-04-2002 23:02									#7
	Re: Oracle or Pyramids? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by caliskier At the start of the game you can build the Pyramids almost right away depending on your civ and wonder selection. The Oracle comes soon after. I am a big Pyramid fan from civ 1 because of all the granaries you get for free, but is the Oracle worth using valuable early game production for? I usually just let the computer get it.

I'm pretty sure that in Civ1 the Pyramids didn't give you graneries. It gave you the ability to switch to any form of government without anarchy.

	25-04-2002 23:34									#8
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quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 The problem with the oracle in Civ2 was that it went obsolete so quickly... but I don't remember when it expires in Civ3.

If I remember correctly, it expiers with theology.

I go for the Pyramids. Then the Oracle if I have a city with a nice amount of production.

	26-04-2002 00:17									#9
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the first age goes way too fast to use the oracle.

	26-04-2002 00:22									#10
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I do pyramid firts then oracle in one city. Then later get a couple more lesser wonders and BOOM! 20000 culture win by the late 1800's, early 1900's.

	26-04-2002 00:28									#11
	Re: Re: Oracle or Pyramids? Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 I'm pretty sure that in Civ1 the Pyramids didn't give you graneries. It gave you the ability to switch to any form of government without anarchy.

Yes, it wasn't until Civ2 that they gave you granaries. I always go for the pyranids, the effects of having free granaries is worth more to me than the culture benefit of the oracle. The oracle becomes obsolete to quickly, so I only build it if I have a spare GL hanging around.

	26-04-2002 00:46									#12
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I never seem to get either, but I'll usually go for the pyramids if possible.

	26-04-2002 06:20									#13
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As Uber said, the ancient era goes too fast for the Oracle to be of any use at all.

Since early game, I'm going for the huge landgrab (or hoarding up horsemen for early conquests), wonders are the last thing on my mind (unless you're talking the Great Library on harder difficulty levels). I don't start any wonders until I get to the middle-ages. So the question Oracle or Pyramids... I'd definitely choose the Pyramids.

	29-04-2002 06:52									#14
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On the higher difficulty levels, the AI is going to beat you to the pyramids about every time. The only way to survive is to fight wars, grab land, and get a cities/workers lead. I've never been in a position to build wonders until later in the game.

The two exceptions are
1. The Colossus. You can usually beat the AI to this one.

2. If you set up a game on an 80% water map with archipelago, then the most important wonder in the entire game becomes the Great Lighthouse. Without it, you're stuck on your little island until the end of the middle ages. By then the AI will be way too far ahead of you. Conversely, if you get this wonder you can go get a lot of acreage before anyone else is in a position to expand.
This scenario is the only way I've been able to actually win on diety level.

	29-04-2002 09:24									#15
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Pyramids. Most definately, for reasons aforementioned by others.

	29-04-2002 10:07									#16
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I'm just happy if I get either one.

	29-04-2002 10:31									#17
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I managed to win my last game on emperor without building any wonders...by the end I only controlled 3 - Suffrage, Hoover, and Longevity...and I still won...it's definitely tough to get wonders on the harder difficulties.

	29-04-2002 10:43									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq The pyramids give you the bonus of being able to outpace the AI land grab. The Oracle has the awesome culture potential, as Ironwood points out. As with most elements of the civ series, each has its place, depending on your game. I never get either anyway - too busy claiming real estate, and nary a leader before better wonders have been available.

That's all Civ 3 is for the first several millennia - trying to grab real estate before the flood of AI settlers does. It is getting old and tedious.

If Firaxis had brains, they would allow us to toggle on and off the settler flood and, like a chess match, have different opening strategies by the AI, perhaps partly depending on the civ the human chooses. But all I do is build settler after settler turn after turn, while trying to block AI settlers and workers from wandering into my territory.

It really is tiresome. We need more AI options.

BTW, I beat the AI to the Great Library, and got five free techs as a result before it made itself obsolete by giving me Education (also dumb), but AI tech-whoring on the other continent still seemed to eventually make the GL no big deal.

	29-04-2002 11:05									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle If Firaxis had brains, they would allow us to toggle on and off the settler flood

Uhhh... you would prefer them to not expand and be crushed by you? This was a problem in Civ2, the AI expanded to a point and left the rest alone, for you to take and crush the AI with. Hey, in "real life" nations grab as much land as they can. Maybe you just need to play on an easier level...

	29-04-2002 20:44									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle That's all Civ 3 is for the first several millennia - trying to grab real estate before the flood of AI settlers does. It is getting old and tedious.

I glanced at this phrase without noticing at first who posted it. I thought 'Must have been Coracle'.



Yep.

	29-04-2002 22:42									#21
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I would go for the Pyramids. They're neater looking.

	29-04-2002 22:47									#22
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Pyraminds are much pursued by the AI. However, on Pangaea maps sacrifice some expansion early to get them! Will pay off nicely.

	30-04-2002 13:41									#23
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i never build pyramids, probably because i usually think of hitting water shortage instead of expansion.
now, oracle is a nice wonder, but nothing beats GL and the huge amounts of cash it brings

	30-04-2002 16:39									#24
	Re: Re: Oracle or Pyramids? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 I'm pretty sure that in Civ1 the Pyramids didn't give you graneries. It gave you the ability to switch to any form of government without anarchy.

Yep, it was very powerful because of that. Any govt you like, as soon as you build it. It was cheap, too.

	30-04-2002 18:26									#25
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The Pyramids is one of the wonders I newer have managed to complete - A.I players has always beaten me in doing so.

There are a few other wonders also I newer have built including the Oracle, Hanging gardens and Sun Tsu's war.

I guess there are some modern time wonders also I newer have built but in thruth I don't even remember what wonders are included in the modern era - mostly I just ignore them since they dont seem to serve any purpose at that stage.

-Saurus