27-04-2002 07:35									#1
	A few ideas and a question or two Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

First off, i'm wondering if a couple things i've experienced is a bug.
1. When you load your saved game it forgets your type of palace archtitechture, its kinda annoying to have to change it each time, or not notice it and plop a creco-roman second story onto your middle-eastren palace(even if they are kinda similiar).

2. A bug in the diplomacy AI? I destroyed the Russians in a game, but also in that game I asked them for a right of passage(which they denied), soon after words I went to war with them and destroyed them. Then many many years later I ask for a ROP with the Greeks, and they say they remember me breaking it with the Russians. Is this a bug, or are they supposed to do that?

Now, for the ideas.
1. Enslavement. I'm tired of razing these citys and getting nothing out of it, and foreign peples are a hassle. So during a game where most of my worker population consisted of captured ones, I thought it might be good if you could have a "enslave and raze" option. Where you get a portion of the cities inhabitants as workers, some would obviously resist and be killed. This would be fairly realistic since it was actually done.

2.Mining of speal resources. Like Iron, you get it even though you have no mine. I understand that some of it is on the ground, but for the better quality stuff and large portions wouldn't you have to mine? I propose either A: Forcing you to mine to get things like iron/gold/etc...
B: Or perhaps increasing the bonus by half for gold when you build a mine, and maybe getting an extra iron for building a mine on iron?

Anyway, tell me what you think folks, pick my ideas apart all you want, just don't say "it sucks" and don't explain why. :P

	27-04-2002 18:08									#2
	Re: A few ideas and a question or two Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by ChaotikVisions First off, i'm wondering if a couple things i've experienced is a bug. 1. When you load your saved game it forgets your type of palace archtitechture, its kinda annoying to have to change it each time, or not notice it and plop a creco-roman second story onto your middle-eastren palace(even if they are kinda similiar).

Iīve noticed that too. Annoying is the word, but itīs not like itīs affecting gameplay or anything. A (very) minor bug, but still a bug.

quote: 2. A bug in the diplomacy AI? I destroyed the Russians in a game, but also in that game I asked them for a right of passage(which they denied), soon after words I went to war with them and destroyed them. Then many many years later I ask for a ROP with the Greeks, and they say they remember me breaking it with the Russians. Is this a bug, or are they supposed to do that?

They are supposed to do that. IIRC, the AI remembers past transgressions. It makes sense IMO, cause in RL it happens all the time (the middle-east conflict, et al).

quote: Now, for the ideas. 1. Enslavement. I'm tired of razing these citys and getting nothing out of it, and foreign peples are a hassle. So during a game where most of my worker population consisted of captured ones, I thought it might be good if you could have a "enslave and raze" option. Where you get a portion of the cities inhabitants as workers, some would obviously resist and be killed. This would be fairly realistic since it was actually done.

IIRC you do get workers if you raze a enemy city, the city is somehow converted in to slave labour (they donīt work as fast as your own workers though...lazy buggers... )

quote: 2.Mining of speal resources. Like Iron, you get it even though you have no mine. I understand that some of it is on the ground, but for the better quality stuff and large portions wouldn't you have to mine? I propose either A: Forcing you to mine to get things like iron/gold/etc... B: Or perhaps increasing the bonus by half for gold when you build a mine, and maybe getting an extra iron for building a mine on iron?

A: Good point That would increase "reality" in the game.

B: IIRC you get more iron if you mine it.

quote: Anyway, tell me what you think folks, pick my ideas apart all you want, just don't say "it sucks" and don't explain why. :P

Picking complete

	27-04-2002 19:34									#3
	Tired of ads?

Not sure about the bugs, I haven't experienced them.

But for the other 2 ideas:

quote: "enslave and raze" option. Where you get a portion of the cities inhabitants as workers

You already do get this - You raze the city and some are converted to workers.

quote: Like Iron, you get it even though you have no mine.

Actually, this is in the game in a way too. If you haven't built a mine on the iron, you still get a bonus to production from that iron even without a mine. You build a mine, production increases from that square and you can use it as a strategic resource.

You do have a point though with gold sites - with or without a mine, I think they generate the same amount of trade.

Hope that wasn't too harsh

	27-04-2002 23:00									#4
	ah, ok Increase Your PM Length

I wasn't sure if you got workers or not every time you razed a city, sometimes i'd get none from the same size city and get 1 or 2 from the same size city the next time. But its good to know I can base my enconomy off slave labor now, heh.

Wasn't sure if mines increased it already on iron or not, but its good to see they do. But on the bug with the AI. I had asked the Russians but they _denied_ me. Then I attacked them later. I'd understand if I had signed an agreement, but I hadn't. So thats why I thought it odd for them to say I broke a deal the Russians never agreed to with me.

And for 1 more idea:
Winter/Summer Palace, two small wonders, discovered when you develop monarchy. Just lessens corruption in surrounding citys, about half of what the palace or forbidden city does. Would be really useful for far-flung empires.

	28-04-2002 02:13									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Winter/Summer palace I played a mod a few months ago that had a similar solution. Although with the latest patch, corruption is actually quite manageable.

I currently have an empire that spans roughly 35x35 squares and I have a corrution rate of about 13%. On my third continent though, corrution is skyrocketing to about 75% too bad you can only build the forbidden palace once...

	28-04-2002 02:23									#6
	Re: ah, ok Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by ChaotikVisions I wasn't sure if you got workers or not every time you razed a city, sometimes i'd get none from the same size city and get 1 or 2 from the same size city the next time. But its good to know I can base my enconomy off slave labor now, heh.

Yeah, I currently have 25+ captured workers (wiped out English, French and the stinking Zulu ) Good thing you can accumulate workers to speed things up...takes forever to get them to do anything otherwise. 48 turns to clear a patch of jungle, my ass. You see this wip, boy? Now you and your buddies get to work!

quote: But on the bug with the AI. I had asked the Russians but they _denied_ me. Then I attacked them later. I'd understand if I had signed an agreement, but I hadn't. So thats why I thought it odd for them to say I broke a deal the Russians never agreed to with me.

That does sound strange, maybe thatīs a bug after all...or just a really unfair AI...

	28-04-2002 02:27									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, regarding the Russian bug... did you A) attack them without declaring war first? (Even if you didn't it still counts against you I think)... or B) enter an alliance with the Russians and then sign a peace treaty with the enemy without canceling the alliance?