14-05-2002 21:34									#61
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Well Yang might be acting as a dictator, but what he means is that it is only your mind that can be free. If you are loving the your body to much you aren't free...

That was not a good example at all...

	15-05-2002 03:36									#62
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Gotta go with the Pirates - Ideologically, they love the water and all its wonders, ecological, industriual and recreational. Practically speaking, they can be very dangerous when properly used.

	16-05-2002 00:48									#63
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i can't believe the aliens have more votes than the believers do .

Well now that i think about it, i guess i can.

	16-05-2002 05:11									#64
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I like the Usurpers very much. They, and the Pirates were the only Alien Crossfire factions I actively wanted to play. Then I realized the Pirates were a**holes and it was too frustrating to play as the Usurpers because no-one will be your ally.

I would have played as the Cybernetic Consciousness more, except for the fact that they were portrayed as denying their humanity and melding with machines, which didn't really appeal to me.

	16-05-2002 05:20									#65
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Mr. Prez-

Why is it that you find the Pirates to be *******s?

	16-05-2002 06:53									#66
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Ursupers are also one of my preffered factions.... I like them much more than the caretakers.

I also hate the pirates.
I have some reasons which seem pretty good to me:
Well, sea bases aren't terribly realistic. At a minimum the required tech should be Doc:Init and it should probably be up in the nanotech techs.
Sooo... they shouldn't exist, considering the unity tech all Sven's followers should be sleeping with the fishes rather than sucessfully founding a sea base.
When the AI plays them they are annoying. Not powerful or challenging to defeat, just plain annoying.

	16-05-2002 07:24									#67
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It seems to me, judging from different threads - as well as the posts in here, that the Spartan's are neither popular, nor often played...
Any one with experience concur ?

	16-05-2002 08:23									#68
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quote: Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader It seems to me, judging from different threads - as well as the posts in here, that the Spartan's are neither popular, nor often played... Any one with experience concur ?

Funny, I just voted for the Spartans. This was the last post in the thread after I did that.

Spartans are cool. I love playing them. I wooped on quite a few humans playing the Spartans.

	16-05-2002 08:41									#69
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I don't like the Pirates just because they're annoying when the computer plays them. I feel weird about the fact that their ideology would not produce a functioning country. Any of the original factions, I could see surviving as a government and having a real economy, and whatnot. With the Pirates I feel compelled to play them as warmongers, which isn't my natural style.

	16-05-2002 19:07									#70
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it looks like the university are taking the lead with 20% and the free drones with 13% in second...

no one voted for the believers?

	16-05-2002 19:12									#71
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Who can blame them? They rely way too on momentum for most people's taste. And as an adversary, they are just a pain in the ass. If you're isolated, you're screwed.

Dave

	17-05-2002 02:00									#72
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Another interesting thing is that the PK's are 2nd to last out of the original SMAC factions. This is prehaps due to the AI Lal's behaivour?

I must say I find is suprising that someone here doesn't like the Belieivers most, considering that both aliens, the cult, and angels all got 1 vote. Data scatter, prehaps....

	17-05-2002 03:13									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Blake I must say I find is suprising that someone here doesn't like the Belieivers most, considering that both aliens, the cult, and angels all got 1 vote. Data scatter, prehaps....

The Believers make for a fun game, when you are using them. I've found all possible strategies using them to be somewhat fun. Let the other factions do your research for you, then steal it with your beefed up probe teams, and frame someone else for it. Improve your industry with punishment spheres and genejack factories. The -50% tech will have no effect on you whatsoever. Then you can use Free Market without the -5 Police effect. When you go to war, use the stolen technology to attack and with the 25% attack bonus, as well as morale bonuses from Fundamentalist and Power social engineering, you'll pretty much be unstoppable on the offensive.

However, I do hate the Believers, ideologically and not to mention the way the AI uses them. They are a thorn in everyone's side for the whole game, since Uni can't use Fundamentalist, Peacekeepers prefer democracy, Hive prefer Police State, and the Morgans, Gaians and Spartans stand to gain more from Democratic and Police State social engineering choices IMHO.

If you play Civ III, you could easily compare them with the Zulu.

	17-05-2002 10:49									#74
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LordAzreal how do you play them in the start before you get the needed tech for punishment sphere and genejack factory...

	17-05-2002 14:55									#75
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quote: Originally posted by waab LordAzreal how do you play them in the start before you get the needed tech for punishment sphere and genejack factory...

Well firstly, I obviously don't use Free Market since the drones go wild with the degree of warmongering required in the beginning for a successful peacekeeper game with my strategy. I'll use Planned economics to build up my Industry rating and therefore make my units cheaper. I'll neutralise the Efficiency penalty with Democratic politics and won't yet touch my values options (power, wealth, etc.).

Since I play with Spoils of War enabled, I'll beat up my nearest neighbour, taking as many techs as I can. When they are down on their knees offering surrender, I'll accept. If they are the Morganites, I'll give them their bases back so they can build up their vast wealth again. If they are Uni, I'll also do that so that they can carry out research. Otherwise, I finish them off.

By this time, I'll have the techs needed for probe teams, so I can then switch to Fundamentalist politics, and begin probing Morgan to drain his bank accounts, and probing Zak so as to keep up in the tech race. Soon enough, I'll have Advanced Military Algorithms, thus allowing the Power social choice and Punishment Sphere. Once I do, I make sure I have peace, switch to Free Market, and then start building my spheres in each base. Later, I'll have the tech for genejacks as well, and I'll already be able to build the genejack factories without inciting drone activity, since the punishment spheres will already be up by that time.

	17-05-2002 17:35									#76
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Hmm, good stuff. But you better pray (no pun intended) that neighbors are near and bountiful or you can pick up Doc: Flex. I would probably play them like the spartans, going for Nonlinear Math., and building or capturing Command Nexus. I'm still relatively new to the game, and haven't played them yet, but I'll keep these ideas in mind. Dave

	21-05-2002 15:19									#77
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I like PKs because the extra votes makes such a big difference. Being Chairman of the council is powerful in that you can gather so much info about everybody else. On top of that, the raised pop limits allow significant advantage mid-game growing to size 9 without Hab. The -1 efficiency stings, but it isn't too steep.

Morgan is cool, but the pop limit in the early game before Hab is a tough challenge. The AI stinks as Morgan, but with some help from the human player he can do well… fattened up for the harvest, as someone else mentioned.

The current game I'm playing as PK on a huge random world, blind research. A largish continent to myself, and my only neighbor is Yang. Ugh. Contacted others by encountering their ships or finding their freqs. It was forever before my exploring ships reached their territories.

Morgan fell first. For a long time Dee and Yang were ahead in many categories. Santiago was on the other side of Yang, on a small continent, somewhat contained. U of P withered in Gaian shadows, while Believers hung around quite a while until Dee took care of business. Meanwhile I filled up my continent and a couple islands, plus a sea colony in the GeoShallows.

I didn't start to dominate until 2300s. Yang's jets kept picking off my transports, so all I could do was seize several sea colonies. That put me in range of the Spartans. My jets and cruisers took out everything that moved, at some cost, but now Santiago is neutralized.

I kept pressing research until I got drop troops. Yang's continent was just in range. Soon the Hive capital fell, and four other large bases and sea colonies. I'm rush building Pods to eliminate them profitably. Now he is a nuke-lobbing thorn in my side, but not so much of a threat. I just have to leave those bases in range empty with a net of defenders to keep his ships at bay.

I've had a Green/Knowledge social structure since I got the tech to allow it, which kept the Gaians happy until I got strong enough to be a major threat. It also netted me quite a few mind worms by capture while keeping ecodamage minimal despite complete eradication of fungus anywhere near my bases. Dee is still too far away to inspire dread.

If I hadn't the edge on the Council given the PK, Yang and Dee would've lifted the attrocity ban and I'd be toast. Yang had a PB and would've used it before I invaded his continent. Dee certainly would've built one had they succeeded in lifting the ban. Allowing 9 pop without Hab makes good use of the land in secondary bases while sparing the expense of building and maintaining the extra structures.

	22-05-2002 15:03									#78
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Deirdre rocks! Several reasons;
tree-hugging democrat
big mind worms
all the bonuses
and the minor fact that if you DON'T play as her she is GUARANTEED to stab you in the back. Geez, last time it was pact sister to vendetta in two turns...

Only she's supposed to be Scottish. Why isn't she Scottish? Scottish accents are cool!

	22-05-2002 15:50									#79
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Getting back into SMAC, I've found a new favourite faction...

The SPARTANS!!!

Whether you go Police State or Democracy, there is still a way to make your social engineering model powerful. Currently, in the most recent game I'm playing, I have them on Police State political model, Green economic model and Knowledge. Only Growth and Industry have suffered from this, but it hardly hurts at all.

Not only that, but a lot of their ideology, I agree with. I agree with them more than I agree with the Hive, Gaians or University.

	22-05-2002 16:43									#80
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Damnit! Are the Spartans allowed to run Knowledge? Cos every time I try it, Santiago calls me up and accuses me of developing secret weapons! Can you say 'hypocrisy', Corazon?

	22-05-2002 16:48									#81
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quote: Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic Damnit! Are the Spartans allowed to run Knowledge? Cos every time I try it, Santiago calls me up and accuses me of developing secret weapons! Can you say 'hypocrisy', Corazon?

They CAN use Knowledge. The one they can't do is Wealth. Just like other factions with their hypocritical political stances.

	22-05-2002 16:55									#82
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I've never played as the Spartans and my usually-encyclopaedic knowledge of the factions has been somewhat compromised by AS level revision - thanx for jogging the old memory

	23-05-2002 03:18									#83
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You just need to realise the enemy gets annoyed when you DONT run their ideology, they don't give a hoot if you run their anti-ideology.

Hence, Miriam doesn't give a dam if you run Knowledge, but she'll snap if you run Demo or Police. Likewise Zak wont care if you run Fundie, but run wealth or power and, well you know.

The thing is many factions (Hive, PK, Gaians, Morgan, Spartan - the vast majority, IOW) have their ideology and anti-ideology in the same SE field, meaning it's hard to actually notice this rather odd effect. However it does mean that Dee is just as pissed if you run Planned or Free Market.

	23-05-2002 03:54									#84
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quote: However it does mean that Dee is just as pissed if you run Planned or Free Market

hmm,dee seems to attack the minute i switch to FM while using planned i can go for along time maybe its just me,as i almost never use FM...

	23-05-2002 07:22									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Blake The thing is many factions (Hive, PK, Gaians, Morgan, Spartan - the vast majority, IOW) have their ideology and anti-ideology in the same SE field, meaning it's hard to actually notice this rather odd effect. However it does mean that Dee is just as pissed if you run Planned or Free Market.

Exactly, though there are more examples of this with the SMAX factions: Domai's aversion is Green, but he only cares about Future Society choices, Roze's aversion is Power, but like Lal, only whines if you don't run Demo.

As for the poll at hand I'm also going with the Data Angels. They're definitely the hippest faction around, and a great refuge for all the brilliant malcontents and computer geeks out there, probably a lot like the Apolyton community. When Roze tells me that signing a treaty with her faction would be "suitably chic" it just cracks me up.

From a gameplaying standpoint, they just rule. They are even more versitile, IMO, than Lal. Their penalty, -1 police, is really a non-issue (so they can't nerve staple; does anyone? Unless you're a sabre-rattling despot who doesn't care about commerce, I guess). Beyond that they are just kings at the Probe Game, vital and lucrative, as any human player knows. And the roll-over issue: I just edit their faction template to +1 Probe instead of +2, so the free Covert Ops Centers will grant them the (proper) maximum possible benefit in-game, including subversion immunity.

The University's popularity is understandable; I still remember way back when Gamespot released their SMAC Strategy Guide on their site and were trumpeting the University horn all the way. However, for all their ivory tower pursuit of knowledge and technology, I see University society like one huge technical college; very clinical, regimented, cold and humorless. Also, their stance on individual human rights and privaledges is in question due to "unethical" drone problems.

	23-05-2002 09:36									#86
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I agree with your analysis of the University. But the Data Angels aren't really to my taste. I like order and the rule of established governments. The Data Angels seem to run counter to that for me.