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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-Help > Unload Army?
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Gelvan is offline Gelvan
Warlord
Switzerland
Nov 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 27-04-2002 16:01
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Unload Army? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hi there

Surely this question has been asked before, but I couldn't find an answer. Is it possible to leave an army and if so then how? "L" doesn't work for me... Also I can't upgrade troops inside an army.

thanks for your advise

lockstep is offline lockstep
King
Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 27-04-2002 16:47
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Neither unloading an army nor upgrading units inside an army is possible. According to Firaxis, this is a design decision (IMO, a bad one). There was a bug in v1.17f involving stacked movement that allowed unloading an army, but it caused some weird effects and was removed in v1.21f.

Gelvan is offline Gelvan
Warlord
Switzerland
Nov 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 27-04-2002 19:06
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A very bad descision. Thanks anyway.

Lucilla is offline Lucilla
Princess
The Netherlands
Apr 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 29-04-2002 20:49
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However, you can disband the army in one of your cities, which will give you shields back. I did that once with an army of infantry and got 100 shields. I don't know if the number of shields depends on the type of unit(s) you have in the army.

Note: don't disband the army in a city that's building a (small) wonder, because you are not allowed to rush wonder building with this trick. You will just loose your 100 shields...

lockstep is offline lockstep
King
Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 29-04-2002 22:47
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AFAIK, disbanding units in a city yields 25% of the original shield costs. As armies cost 400 shields, you obviously only get the value of the army itself, but not of the loaded units. Another bad 'design decision'.

Lucilla is offline Lucilla
Princess
The Netherlands
Apr 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 30-04-2002 01:57
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quote:
Originally posted by lockstep
AFAIK, disbanding units in a city yields 25% of the original shield costs. As armies cost 400 shields, you obviously only get the value of the army itself, but not of the loaded units. Another bad 'design decision'.


True, but at least you get something back. As units in an army don't recover from their injuries, the army becomes worthless for further battles.
I guess this "design" decision was made, so that a great leader can only be used once to create an army. That is sort of consistent with the role of a leader, but I found it very disappointing when you start building armies with the Military Academy. You first have to invest the 400 shields plus the shields for the units and then you get only one attack and can't re-use the units.

zulu9812 is offline zulu9812
King
of Scotland
Jan 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 30-04-2002 05:31
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Armies are useless: you can't upgrade them nor can they heal. The new stacked movement rules make armies obsolete. Let's compare the two: a 4-unit army against 4 stacked units. Both move together, thus benefitting from increased survivability. However, the 4-unit stack can attack 4 times, whilst the army can only atack once. Do the math.

On the other hand, it's worth winning one battle with an army, just so you can build the Heroic Epic and get all that lovely culture!

(I actually thought that units in an army did heal, but maybe I'm wrong)

ixnay is offline ixnay
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Jan 1970
time: 22:19
  Old Post 30-04-2002 05:52 Visit ixnay<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
As units in an army don't recover from their injuries, the army becomes worthless for further battles.


I don't know about your armies, but mine heal if I let them rest enough.

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:19
  Old Post 30-04-2002 10:23
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Can't you move units in and out of an army before it leaves it's home city for the first time? After then it is set in stone though.

LaRusso is offline LaRusso
King
appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 30-04-2002 17:04
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quote:
Originally posted by zulu9812
Armies are useless:


how about an army of modern armor or mechinf?

Lucilla is offline Lucilla
Princess
The Netherlands
Apr 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 30-04-2002 17:10
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quote:
Originally posted by ixnay37
I don't know about your armies, but mine heal if I let them rest enough.


How long do you have to wait then? Does the army need to be in a city and do you need barracks for healing?

zulu9812 is offline zulu9812
King
of Scotland
Jan 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 30-04-2002 17:21
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quote:
Originally posted by LaRusso
how about an army of modern armor or mechinf?


Again, compare 4 stacked modern armour vs. a modern armour army. The stack can attack 4 times and has the same total hit points as the army, whilst the army can only attack once.

Lucilla is offline Lucilla
Princess
The Netherlands
Apr 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 30-04-2002 17:30
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Do I understand it correctly, that the difference between attacking with an army and attacking with 4 stacked units is as follows:
When attacking with 4 separate units, you do a 1 by 1 battle, which means your 1st unit attacks the first counterpart, the 2nd unit the 2nd and so on. The 3rd unit will then only attack the 1st one, if no 3d, 4th, etc. units are left to attack.
An army will attack the 1st unit as a whole and then proceed to the 2nd, which means you concentrate your attack on the most defensive unit until it is beaten and then go on with the next.

Is this how it works?

danol is offline danol
Settler

Apr 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 30-04-2002 18:16
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My armies heal as normal, move out off enemy territory an let them rest, i think they heal faster in a town with barracks, but maybe i am wrong.

quote:
Originally posted by Lucilla


How long do you have to wait then? Does the army need to be in a city and do you need barracks for healing?

Lucilla is offline Lucilla
Princess
The Netherlands
Apr 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 30-04-2002 18:21
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Thanks danol, I'll try that next time.

Welcome to the forum...

zulu9812 is offline zulu9812
King
of Scotland
Jan 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 30-04-2002 22:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Lucilla
Do I understand it correctly, that the difference between attacking with an army and attacking with 4 stacked units is as follows:
When attacking with 4 separate units, you do a 1 by 1 battle, which means your 1st unit attacks the first counterpart, the 2nd unit the 2nd and so on. The 3rd unit will then only attack the 1st one, if no 3d, 4th, etc. units are left to attack.
An army will attack the 1st unit as a whole and then proceed to the 2nd, which means you concentrate your attack on the most defensive unit until it is beaten and then go on with the next.

Is this how it works?


Stacked movement - this was introduced in patch 1.17f but it's just allowing you to move all units of one type in a single tile all at once. It doesn't change how several units in one tile attack an enemy. So, with a 4 stack attacking an enemy 4 stack - friendly unit 1 (1A) attacks enemy unit 1 (1B). If 1A kills 1B, then 2A will attack 2B. However, if 1B kills 1A, then 2A will attack 1B. This is without any units being able to blitz.

Geddit?

I know, it's somewhat confusing.

An army will only ever attack one enemy unit per turn. I've never tried putting blitz units in an army, so I'm not sure if an army composed entirely of, say modern armour, is able to blitz. I doubt it, though.

Lucilla is offline Lucilla
Princess
The Netherlands
Apr 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 30-04-2002 22:34
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Thanks for the explanation zulu9812.

Just to confirm that I understand it correctly, my English needs to be brushed up a little:
I guess "blitz" comes from the German word "Blitzkrieg", used for quickly won battles during WW2. But "blitz" in this case means a unit can attack multiple times in one turn?

zulu9812 is offline zulu9812
King
of Scotland
Jan 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 01-05-2002 00:58
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Yes, that's right. Blitz units can attack once per point of movement every turn.

Feyd is offline Feyd
Settler
THE Small town...the one from the song
Apr 2002
time: 23:19
  Old Post 01-05-2002 02:39
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I don't think armies are useless in two important aspects...

1.) Armies are the best defenders in the game: You can four mechanized infantry defending your radar artillery as you go into combat, but with a modern tank unit, the attacker has a good chance of killing one of your mech. infantry and keeping his tank. With an army, either he looses the tank because there's practically no way he can survive the attack. Granted, if the tanks attack in numbers your toast, but it's the same way without the army AND he gets to keep the tanks that kill the single units instead of just the one that kills the army. The computer knows this and will oftentimes stay away from armies and go for smaller fish (single unit stacks).

2.) Armies are the best attackers in the game: While it's true that they can take a lot of hp damage in an attack, Armies are true defense busters because, lets say the defender has an elite rifleman defending his city. You can either attack with four calvary or an army of four calvary. With the four calvary you'll hurt him with the first, but he'll be back and fresh as new the next round because his secondary defenders will have stepped up to fight the remaining three calvary. With the army you ensure that that pesky elite rifleman will be no more.

Basically it's a matter of utility. If you have to defend that one tile you could use four mech. infantry and have to keep replacing them or you could just fortify your army and let battlefield medicine work for ya. If you want to get rid of a town's best defender and not spend four units in order to do it, use one army...

Just my thoughts...

Feyd

P. S.-Modern armor (and tanks) can attack multiple times in one round anyway so an army of them might be good? Also, who attacks with mech infantry anyway (when you can attack with modern armor...

zulu9812 is offline zulu9812
King
of Scotland
Jan 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 01-05-2002 04:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Feyd
Basically it's a matter of utility. If you have to defend that one tile you could use four mech. infantry and have to keep replacing them or you could just fortify your army and let battlefield medicine work for ya. If you want to get rid of a town's best defender and not spend four units in order to do it, use one army...

Just my thoughts...

Feyd

P. S.-Modern armor (and tanks) can attack multiple times in one round anyway so an army of them might be good? Also, who attacks with mech infantry anyway (when you can attack with modern armor...


1. Armies don't attack or defend in the same way as other units - you'll lose the first unit, then it moves on to the second. It doesn't swap them around when one unit gets injured. So your army will diminish and you can't then replace the lost units in the army. I know this because I was once defending against an army comprised of 1 archer, 2 spearmen and a warrior. The archer was killed first, then a spearman, and so on.

2. "not spend four units"? "one army"? That one army can be comprised of up to 5 units, including one very expensive 40 shield non-combat unit...

3. Are you sure that modern armour armies actually blitz? The Patch Suggestion Mod (aka Player1 Mod) added the pillage ability to armies - previously armies couldn't pillage even though normally the units inside would be able to.

Last edited by zulu9812 on 01-05-2002 at 06:32

Tuberski is offline Tuberski
Emperor
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Feb 2002
time: 23:19
  Old Post 01-05-2002 04:12 Visit Tuberski's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by ixnay37
quote:
As units in an army don't recover from their injuries, the army becomes worthless for further battles.


I don't know about your armies, but mine heal if I let them rest enough.


Same here. The only difference is, that it heals at the same rate as a normal unit. With 3 units in an army it will take long for 1 army with 15 HPs to heal, than it will for 3 units with 5 HPs each.

LaRusso is offline LaRusso
King
appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 02-05-2002 15:30
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quote:
Originally posted by zulu9812
1. Armies don't attack or defend in the same way as other units - you'll lose the first unit, then it moves on to the second. It doesn't swap them around when one unit gets injured. So your army will diminish and you can't then replace the lost units in the army. I know this because I was once defending against an army comprised of 1 archer, 2 spearmen and a warrior. The archer was killed first, then a spearman, and so on.


it actually does swap them around, and starts killing them completely only if it drops down to red zone

yes, modern armor can blitz

zulu9812 is offline zulu9812
King
of Scotland
Jan 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 02-05-2002 16:35
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Sorry, yes that is true - however it doesn't change the fact that you will lose units from your army and they cannot be replaced, resulting in a weaker and weaker army. I just can't justify the added cost of the army over simply stacking units. It's just a more flexible approach, since you can split them up and rejoin them.

LaRusso is offline LaRusso
King
appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 02-05-2002 17:30
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quote:
Originally posted by zulu9812
Sorry, yes that is true - however it doesn't change the fact that you will lose units from your army and they cannot be replaced, resulting in a weaker and weaker army. I just can't justify the added cost of the army over simply stacking units. It's just a more flexible approach, since you can split them up and rejoin them.


nope, army can also recuperate
very rarely will you end up with an army with less than 3 (4) units, and then you can add another one in
armies are pretty good for SOME tasks, spearheading your attack or guarding key points in your defense. they ARE a tradeoff

Yurt is offline Yurt
Warlord
Vancouver, BC
Jan 2002
time: 21:19
  Old Post 08-05-2002 05:04
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Armies of Tanks can attack twice and I'm pretty sure that an army of cavalry can also attack twice. These are both from the most recent game I played, with v1.21, so it's up to date.

Tuberski is offline Tuberski
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Feb 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by Yurt
Armies of Tanks can attack twice and I'm pretty sure that an army of cavalry can also attack twice. These are both from the most recent game I played, with v1.21, so it's up to date.


Yes, armies can blitz as long as they have units with high movement rates.

zulu9812 is offline zulu9812
King
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 08-05-2002 17:49
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I think this was only changed with the 1.21f patch

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