27-04-2002 22:56									#1
	Irrigation and Food Put an end to popups!

In a feeble attempt to be a little more scientific in my approach to developing my civ, I decided to take a closer look at what was actually going on when my workers improved tiles. My thinking was to dedicate cities to specific tasks like building settlers or pumping out shields and wonders. Anyway, I have just dedicated a game to finding out how this sort of thing would work and was somewhat mystified to discover that irrigating grassland tiles had no effect on food production unless they had wheat or a cow or something on them (i.e., they had two food before and two food after irrigation). The Civilopedia seems very clear about this: it says that grassland tiles produce 2 food and that irrigation adds +1 food. Am I missing something here?
While I'm on the subject, are there any strategy guides or essays that address this subject? I notice, for example, that the AI seems to build a lot of mines on grassland and plains. Is this a superior strategy? Is it in fact a reasonable approach to dedicate individual cities to producing specific things like settlers or shields? Any advice would certainly be appreciated, so thanks in advance.

	27-04-2002 23:43									#2
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Under despotism, irrigating regular grassland squares offers no bonus, which is why I mine most all of them early in the game. Once you switch governments, you should get the extra food from them.

	28-04-2002 00:32									#3
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Anksthay ixnay.

	28-04-2002 00:45									#4
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay37 Under despotism, irrigating regular grassland squares offers no bonus, which is why I mine most all of them early in the game. Once you switch governments, you should get the extra food from them.

You should still irrigate, especially if you're a despot, since this still causes city growth, which is the only way of speeding up production.

	30-04-2002 13:04									#5
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quote: While I'm on the subject, are there any strategy guides or essays that address this subject? I notice, for example, that the AI seems to build a lot of mines on grassland and plains. Is this a superior strategy? Is it in fact a reasonable approach to dedicate individual cities to producing specific things like settlers or shields?

I also like to "dedicate" cities to specific tasks. However, as individuals we all think differently and have a different view of priority and strategy. I do have some suggestions that you can digest and use to your own liking. In another post on this forum, Some Questions - by dbconfessional, I made the following comments on strategies and terrain...

quote: zulu9812 makes a good point - everyone has a different perspective on strategy. However, let me provide an example of some of the things I look for when deciding how to improve land. Suppose that your city is founded near fresh water and that a large number of squares on this side are Flood Plains and much of the other terrain is Grassland... since ALL you can get from Flood Plains is food you might consider mining the Grassland squares to "up" the production for that city. As with all strategies... it all depends on the variables and the individual. Good luck with your quests... play smart, play tough, have FUN!

Another example would be where the predominant terrain is Hills and/or Mountains with only a few Grassland squares... since the Hills/Mountains are going to produce mostly shields.. irrigate what's left. Finally, and this is strictly personal preference, if I am dealing with terrain that is all grassland and plains I tend to mine grassland and irrigate plains... optimizing food/shield balance each provides. What this all boils down to is... look at the terrain that the city has to work with and decide the net effect of all the terrain involved. Then decide on what improvements to do to each terrain type. Again... this is just IMO, but you asked.

	01-05-2002 06:46									#6
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quote: Originally posted by zulu9812 You should still irrigate, especially if you're a despot, since this still causes city growth, which is the only way of speeding up production.

It doesn't help city growth UNLESS it creates extra food, which it does not under despotism.

	01-05-2002 16:21									#7
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Hang on, my despotism-era cities grow a lot faster with irrigated squares than without

	02-05-2002 05:51									#8
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quote: Originally posted by zulu9812 Hang on, my despotism-era cities grow a lot faster with irrigated squares than without

despotism gives a -1 to food per square. The only way irrigation will help is if it boosts food production to 4 or better, like with wheat.

	02-05-2002 16:46									#9
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dude - I can't deny what I see in-game. Under despotism, my city wouldn't grow past size 4. I irrigated some flood plain squares and it went up to size 6.

	03-05-2002 02:41									#10
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quote: Originally posted by zulu9812 dude - I can't deny what I see in-game. Under despotism, my city wouldn't grow past size 4. I irrigated some flood plain squares and it went up to size 6.

Yes you irrigated flood plains Which will give you, in any other government without irrigation 3 food. So for despotism it would be:

flood plains= 3 food - 1 (despotism) +1(irrigation)=3 food

grassland= 2 food -1 (despotism) +1(irrigation)=2 food

flood plains and special resources are the only tiles that will give you more than 2 food in despotism.

	03-05-2002 02:47									#11
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Therefore, it's still a good idea to irrigate under despotism, particularly important since you can't rush buy and therefore have to rely on raw production power - i.e. a bigger population.

	03-05-2002 03:22									#12
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quote: Originally posted by zulu9812 Therefore, it's still a good idea to irrigate under despotism, particularly important since you can't rush buy and therefore have to rely on raw production power - i.e. a bigger population.

Only flood plains and specials, irrigating anything else is a waste of time. Mining give you an immediate benefit.

Of course, I never pop rush, so population isn't THAT important to me.