28-04-2002 09:31									#1
	Give Peace a chance??? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, heres the deal. My empire had just sent the Babalonians streaming from our boarders. We'd captured a major town and put a string of fortruese along the fronteer. Everything looked quiet. So I decided to drop into peace and see what it was like.

Well, that was fun, but about 200 years later, the Babalonians were back. Worse, they made a joint attack with two other races. My trade routes were under attack. My armies huddled in their walled cities.

But the real problem was that it too FOREVER to come back to a war footing. It was something like 20-30 turns before I could move against anyone.

Is there a way to drop the time it takes to gear up from peace to war? I might go with 5-10 turns, but not the major effort it cost me. Shoot, its just not worth the effort.

Where in the files is this controlled? Anyone know?

	28-04-2002 18:40									#2
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It's set on a government-by-government basis in govern.txt (or XXX_govern.txt for mods) - look for the line TurnsToNewReadiness.

In Cradle it ranges from 20 (Anarchy) to 5 (Fascism) - perhaps you could halve all the numbers, or something along those lines.

	29-04-2002 00:33									#3
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Actual I never drop the army readiness, I want be always prepared for a surprise attack by foreign nation or by Barbarians, by the way the AI doesn't drop readiness either so why should I do this.

-Martin

	29-04-2002 02:11									#4
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Yeah, but is the reason that we don't do it BECUASE it takes too long to come out of?

I think its a neat option, but too dangerous (in present form) to use. You don't get enough benifit (especially in a current Cradle game) to use it. I've dropped the times in half so I should be able to gear up pretty quickly (though there might be some lag, which is fine, since that's what it simulates.

What I don't want is to go through another 30 turn delay while my triremes are sunk by biremes all over the globe.

The trick is to find the ballance where what the player earns back is equal to what he risks. IMHO, it just takes too long to spring back from.

Does anyone but me use this? If not, I rest my case.

Maybe we need time frames like 1 turn is fast, and 4 turns are slow. But 15 (to go ONE step) is just too long.

Anyone have some suggested values for Cradle?

LATER ADDITION----
I just went into the file and looked at the values and came up with the following conversions...

CRADLE 1.3 VAL NEW VALUE
=========== =========
1-7................................1
8-9................................2
10.................................3
11+...............................4

This might seem quick, but remember that you have to do it twice to go from peace to war. I'll see how it goes and report back.

Last edited by Bluevoss on 29-04-2002 at 02:23

	29-04-2002 20:38									#5
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Although I agree that the current settings are too slow, you have too be careful with making it faster: the human can exploit this feature far better than the AI can so the faster you can change readiness, the more of an advantage the human has over the AI...

	29-04-2002 22:37									#6
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Mr. Borg, Sir! Is it true that the AI doesn't use this at all? (I've never seen them on anything other than a war footing, myself.)

	29-04-2002 22:42									#7
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Depends. You can set it in the AI files. In Cradle it has been disabled but I know the MedMod at least used to have it. Not sure about the latest update though. Not sure about other mods and original game either...

	30-04-2002 04:13									#8
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I've never used this feature for the AI. The AI isn't smart enough to use it.

Plus, in World At War, you don't have time to use it. In the 5 turns it could take to change from peace to war, you'd be dead.

	30-04-2002 13:52									#9
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I always use the peace setting on my games when I am surrounding the last enemy city

	30-04-2002 21:17									#10
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quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc I always use the peace setting on my games when I am surrounding the last enemy city

One of the few situations when it is good to use it.

I think Wes experimented with it, but he removed it finally. I used parts of its strategies.txt, especially the PW tax settings, there are different PW taxes for the default strategies, defence strategy, attack strategy and the siege strategy. The in game AI PW settings indicated that the AI was at the beginning in its default AI strategy, later in the game most AIs were in siege mode, I just saw attack mode once. Another problem for the default AI would be to switch back to non war settings. The default readiness level settings are only in the default AI strategies, if the AI is in a war strategies and it should switch back than the default strategy must be loaded meaning the whole stuff from the beginning that would overwrite of corse all the other mini strategies which are added later to the AI's behaviour. This is not very likly, therefore I came to the conclusion if is the default AI in one of the war strategies it will never return to the default strategy, so to make the AI using the war readiness slider than you have to trigger via slic the war readiness reduction strategy.

-Martin

	01-05-2002 14:14									#11
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sounds way to complicated

	03-05-2002 00:37									#12
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I think the peace mode should be removed altogether and replaced, but higher than war, with some kind of HUMAN FRENZY MODE. Like say your units heal ALOT faster but the upkeep is waaaay higher than war footing. Almost like moving your empire completely to the whim of your army.
And can anyone tell me if the war readiness setting changes the way AI reacts in negotiations, in any way? I forgot. I dont really negotiate often

	03-05-2002 00:44									#13
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Another little note. I was just thinking if any nations were ever in COMPLETE peaceful war footing, throughout history? I mean look at this great nation of mine (England/Great Britain) for example. I would consider, in civ terms, that England is in a 'relatively' peaceful state right now, or was up until recently, but i also wouldnt say we're on the peaceful readiness setting, in Ctp terms. What do others think about this? Is it realistic?

	03-05-2002 00:55									#14
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Maquiladora,

I think that in General, The US tends to be in the mid range of readiness, we are prepared for war and continue to strengthen militarily, but we aren't even close to the levels of military output seen during WW2, or even Vietnam. But I've taken this thread off topic sorry

	03-05-2002 01:02									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

England before WW2. The Egyptians (at several times during their history) - you might not call it peace so much as "letting your military go to pot". How else can you explain the lightning-like advances of the Hycisos (sp?).

I think that this whole thing needs to be examined - its too good to let slide. I think that faster upgrade times (and better diplomacy mods - where you arn't in constant warfare) would really help that along.

	03-05-2002 13:00									#16
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I think in history this bar has moved faster for some cives in wars like the Russians in world war 2
And slower for some like the American defends with the attack on pearl harbour. so this is going to have to go on a lot more like empire size etc.

	03-05-2002 17:24									#17
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BigMc,

Yeah, thats not a bad point. If we were serious about this, we could tie it into the number of cities you have vs the max number for your government type.

The only drawback would be that if you were a city state, you could switch to anarchy and get a big boost - since the max is 75 cities in Cradle.

To add the aspect of peace/war (so that this slider as an actual option and not simply a curiousity), we need to have a better diplomatic stance between nations. Right now, no matter what I do, every nation is pissed at me. I would thing that trade and shared enemies would improve their regard for you, but it dosn't. I know that, to push the human play, the AI has got to be as agressive as possible.

The original CTP2 was like being put in a room full of mentally ill patients. In Cradle, its like you are being put in a room with a lot of homicidal mentally ill patients (with amazing powers of regeneraation). But, man, its fun!

	06-05-2002 01:11									#18
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Just had a quick but interesting thought in my current game -

I'm playing Cradle 1.3, where you heal really, really slowly. Why not make it so that if you go to alert, your healing is a little faster, and if you are at peace, its even faster than that. This way, it would behoove you to jump to piece and then switch back, on only to heal up units.

It would be nice, since I have a lot of heptarenes that are damaged from two wars back. You'd think we'd get around to fixing that.

Oh, and I do like the ability to come out of peace quickly. I tried my new level, were it takes a couple of turns (and not an era) to tool up to WAR. Worked pretty good. The computer attacked me and ran my out of a fort and took a city. I managed to get to a war footing and push him out of the city. Lots of fun.

	07-05-2002 13:13									#19
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what about tying in the era war walkers are going to get the message to tool up a lot quicker then the ancient plank