29-04-2002 08:43									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui So who made you the authority on what is right and wrong in all aspects of life?

Emmerich de Vattel. Look him up and you might learn something.

	29-04-2002 08:49									#32
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I thought you were a realist in IR. What does a realist care about morals or right and wrong? .

	29-04-2002 08:55									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I thought you were a realist in IR. What does a realist care about morals or right and wrong? .

It is also a strategy that has failed to advance the interests of those that practiced it (America, Israel, IRA, etc.) throughout history. Which is one of the primary reasons I don't like the strategy.

	29-04-2002 09:00									#34
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That's okay. I don't like the whole general area.

Speak American, world!

	29-04-2002 09:11									#35
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I think HRW is a fairly credible source. But...

quote: Human Rights Watch has been on my sh*t list ever since they lobbied for Plan Columbia. They have very little moral authority or credibility anymore.

I always thought they opposed Plan Colombia.... Do you have a link?

	29-04-2002 09:12									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Natan The issue is whether Israel should be classified under "invaders and oppressors" who should be "resisted" by "all means." I think that once you say yes, you kind of give up your claim to be neutral.

So you are denying that the continued presence of Israelis in the occupied territories are in fact illegal? If the territories do not belong to Israel, their presence makes them invaders.

So you are in fact saying that the destruction of Palestinian refugee camps are not acts of oppression?

	29-04-2002 09:15									#37
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I already have the facts straight, Shi -- the extreme Palestinians and their lowly terrorists seek to completely eradicate Israel.

So you are saying that the Israels can eradicate Palestine, but the Palestinians cannot seek to do the same?

	29-04-2002 09:17									#38
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc It is also a strategy that has failed to advance the interests of those that practiced it (America, Israel, IRA, etc.) throughout history. Which is one of the primary reasons I don't like the strategy.

It's very telling that you list the US and Israel in the same group as the IRA.

	29-04-2002 09:18									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger So you are saying that the Israels can eradicate Palestine, but the Palestinians cannot seek to do the same?

If Israel was seeking to erradicate Palestine, they have had the power for quite sometime to do it more quickly and efficently than the effort they have put forth so far.

	29-04-2002 09:20									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger It's very telling that you list the US and Israel in the same group as the IRA.

Why?

	29-04-2002 09:23									#41
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Isn't the IRA a terrorist group?

	29-04-2002 09:28									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Isn't the IRA a terrorist group?

Yes, they have engaged in warfare against civilians. So,have Israel and the US among many other countries much to thier collective detriments. What's your point?

	29-04-2002 10:35									#43
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc If Israel was seeking to erradicate Palestine, they have had the power for quite sometime to do it more quickly and efficently than the effort they have put forth so far.

So what do you call all this destruction of infrastructure and housing? A pat on the back?

	29-04-2002 10:39									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger So what do you call all this destruction of infrastructure and housing? A pat on the back?

I would call the use of troops a waste of resources as a primary weapon in a war of eradication. For example, Israel would have used strategic bombing against Jenin if thier primary purpose was to kill as many civilians as possible.

	29-04-2002 11:01									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger So you are saying that the Israels can eradicate Palestine, but the Palestinians cannot seek to do the same?

IMO, Palestinian leaders have to accept either the Giza strip as their territory with some increase in its size, or they have to accept the West Bank as its territory, with its size decreased somewhat.

One or the other, but I doubt that this was even considered in any negotiations. This is just my opinion on what the terms should be.

Having territory of one, same country on both sides of another country is just plain ridiculous, not to mention any inter-border security problems.

	29-04-2002 11:14									#46
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I would call the use of troops a waste of resources as a primary weapon in a war of eradication. For example, Israel would have used strategic bombing against Jenin if thier primary purpose was to kill as many civilians as possible.

Only the US can do that. Israel will still have to be careful not being too overt.

	29-04-2002 11:16									#47
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun IMO, Palestinian leaders have to accept either the Giza strip as their territory with some increase in its size, or they have to accept the West Bank as its territory, with its size decreased somewhat. One or the other, but I doubt that this was even considered in any negotiations. This is just my opinion on what the terms should be.

On what do you base this? This is completely unfair, that's why the Pals aren't accepting it.

	29-04-2002 18:34									#48
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Why would this be unfair??

Have the Palestinians choose either a reasonable sized country out of Giza, or a reasonable sized country out of the West Bank.

Israel does not want to be surrounded by a hostile country.

	29-04-2002 19:23									#49
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Why would this be unfair?? Have the Palestinians choose either a reasonable sized country out of Giza, or a reasonable sized country out of the West Bank. Israel does not want to be surrounded by a hostile country.

Right !

Israel will have then at its border Arabs countries or sea. I'm not sure about fish political point of view but I think that fishs don't like Israel : Fish was the symbol of the first christians and don't forget that jews killed the Messia of christians, so I consider fishs hostil to jews and Israel.

	29-04-2002 19:36									#50
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It's so nice to read, now and then, the news about how good a work the Israelli troops are doing in preventing unecessary killing and sufering to palestinian civilians!

However, when an impartial organization, that has NEVER defended the terrorist acts performed by palestinians, propose an independent inquiry on a possible war crime, the Isreaelli Government say... no!


And why?
1st: They didn't have military advisors on the enquiry team.
- Now they have.

2nd: Imunity is required to those who are called to answer the team's questions.
- But wait, aren't they inocent? Or is it likelly that some of them are not inocent? If so, isn't the Israelly Government asking that
a-priori amnisty is given to possible war criminals?

3rd: The team should only call the soldiers previouly chosen by the Israelli Authorities:
- Is this the Israelli notion of fair investigation?

What a sad display of hypocrisy!

And I also expected some critical posture of our Israelly friends here at Apolyton and not a thread where someone tries desperately to pass the idea that there is no need for an independent inquiry.

	29-04-2002 20:10									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Natan We can't trust them, or at least Israel can't. They declared Zionism to be racism and endorsed the Palestinians "right to resistance." Is it so surprising that an organization should be no better or impartial than its members?

17

	29-04-2002 23:51									#52
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior Right ! Israel will have then at its border Arabs countries or sea. I'm not sure about fish political point of view but I think that fishs don't like Israel : Fish was the symbol of the first christians and don't forget that jews killed the Messia of christians, so I consider fishs hostil to jews and Israel.

You're not very good at trolling.

	30-04-2002 00:37									#53
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi 17

18

	30-04-2002 01:06									#54
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I do not understand one thing: if there is nothing to conceal, if there was no massacre, then why Sharon tries to delay the arrival of the UN investigators?

	30-04-2002 01:07									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Alephz I do not understand one thing: if there is nothing to conceal, if there was no massacre, then why Sharon tries to delay the arrival of the UN investigators?

Israel doesn't like the UN.

	30-04-2002 01:59									#56
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Urban Ranger, that's not the issue here. The issue isn't whether one should take sides or what side one should take, but whether a party which has taken sides can call itself neutral. I think that by definition, the answer is no.

Alephz: As I said, the UN has a history of opposition to Israel, such as the "Zionism is Racism" resolution passed by the General Assembly in 1975. They even have a special committee on Palestinian rights, which of course does not exist for far more oppressed groups like the Kurds.

	30-04-2002 02:02									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Alephz I do not understand one thing: if there is nothing to conceal, if there was no massacre, then why Sharon tries to delay the arrival of the UN investigators?

They wanted to interrogate Israeli soldiers. Something Israel couldnt accept, at any price.

	30-04-2002 02:27									#58
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hi


to whom it may concern ,

aerial pics , from before , during and after the game show no "shoah" or other horrible things , ....................

have a nice day

	30-04-2002 02:29									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I think HRW is a fairly credible source. But... I always thought they opposed Plan Colombia.... Do you have a link?

You would be wrong in thinking this. They lobbied for it, because they believed it was the best deal they could get. Their attitude was that some form of Plan Columbia was going to go through, and if they simply opposed it, they'd have no input what so ever. They chose to play politics rather than stick to their principles. Now they are damned dirty traitors with nothing to show for it, not even 30 pieces of silver.

As for a link, simply go to HRW's website. They were quite open about this betrayal. I'd like to say they were naive in thinking that the Clinton Administration wouldn't simply use the provisions in the bill to set aside the human rights provsions, but they had enough history to know better. They were criminally ignorant.

	30-04-2002 02:33									#60
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FARC YOU!

Heh, I've read about Colombia that the paramilitary was starting to take hostages and kill left wing members.

Then FARC started taking hostages senators and such then demand tribute (to remember civ) and then use the money to finance its puproses.

It seems to me someone is screwing with the people of Colombia and the rebels have surfaced.

It it said that if you fall on the hands of the paramilitary (in other words the governments's lackeys) you're pretty much done.
In constrast with the FARC.
May they suceed and make a new Cuba so that the people can be delivered from all this exploitaion and suffering.