28-04-2002 23:12									#1
	Human Rights Watch: No evidence of massacre in Jenin Put an end to popups!

quote: Human Rights Watch: No evidence of massacre in Jenin By Matthew Guttman As a UN fact-finding mission prepares to investigate allegations of a massacre in Jenin, most aid workers in the city say that they have come to one major conclusion - though massive destruction took place in the refugee camp, there was clearly no massacre. Aid workers and local doctors have found 52 corpses so far. The workers believe that 21 of them were civilians, including four women, two 14 year old boys, two invalids, and two or three elderly men. The majority of those killed," said Peter Bouckaert, a senior " researcher at US-based Human Rights Watch posted to Jenin, "were killed by snipers. Only one man, that we know of, was crushed in his home by a bulldozer." Bouckaert, whose group has worked closely with medical teams at Jenin Hospital, believes that very few corpses remain buried beneath the tons of rubble. The area of the worst destruction has come to be known among foreign rescue workers, Palestinians, and IDF soldiers alike, as "Ground Zero." Bouckaert was almost certain, he told The Jerusalem Post, that the death toll will not rise beyond 80. There is simply no evidence of a massacre. But we are worried that " Israel will use this fact to whitewash the enormous amount of damage done to the civilian sector." There is still no electricity in the camp, burst water pipes have flooded low lying areas, and the camp's two schools remain closed. Posters of "martyrs" and Hamas and Islamic Jihad flags are again in evidence on the few structures left standing at "Ground Zero." Aid groups, including UNWRA, B'Tselem, LAW, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch are still tallying lists of dead, injured, and displaced, as well as the number of houses destroyed, rendered unlivable, or simply damaged. Nearly every building in the refugee camp, and many in Jenin city itself, were damaged in the fierce two-week battle waged in the town. The IDF estimates that about 10 percent of the structures in the camp were destroyed, while Jenin Governor Zuneir Munasra said about 40% of the camp's buildings were destroyed and another 20% rendered unlivable. The Jenin Governorate and other Palestinian Authority bodies have halted the removal of debris ahead of today's arrival of the UN commission headed by headed by former Finnish president Martti Ahtisaari, despite the desire of UNWRA and other aid organizations to restore the camp to normal Also hindering search and rescue work, says UNWRA Deputy Director Charles Capes, is the large number of unexploded ordinance lying about the camp. Last week British and Norwegian sappers remove some of the booby traps, but they returned home leaving most of the job undone. A French Civil Guard rescue team began Friday to mark and isolate buildings or areas believed to be unsafe. Capes said Palestinian gunmen planted many of the booby traps while other ordinance had been left behind by IDF. Since April 19 one person has been killed and at least 12 were wounded by unexploded ordinance in the camp. Capes said that as many as 3,500 people have been left without shelter. Munasra told the Post that many of them refuse to use the some 800 tents and other equipment sent by US Agency for International Development because they believe the US was "complicit in the attack .on their camp"

	28-04-2002 23:22									#2
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Just wait until the "unbiased" UN mission gets there...then we'll discover the hidden gas chambers

	28-04-2002 23:23									#3
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no evidence eh? Did your government do a good job getting rid of it?

	28-04-2002 23:35									#4
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quote: Originally posted by orange no evidence eh? Did your government do a good job getting rid of it?

Yes, of course. Just like our buldozers "destroyed tens of homes with all their residents inside".

	28-04-2002 23:58									#5
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Of course Orange - not only did the Israelis manage to find and destroy the bodies hidden under the rubble, but they also used a secret weapon (probably paid for by American tax dollars) to erase the families, friends, and co-workers of the deceased from the space time continuum, thus preventing an accurate list of the missing from being drawn up.

	29-04-2002 00:01									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Natan Of course Orange - not only did the Israelis manage to find and destroy the bodies hidden under the rubble, but they also used a secret weapon (probably paid for by American tax dollars) to erase the families, friends, and co-workers of the deceased from the space time continuum, thus preventing an accurate list of the missing from being drawn up.

Hey mac, that information is classified

	29-04-2002 00:07									#7
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Don't be so anti-semitic, orange

	29-04-2002 00:09									#8
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How can they say there was clearly no massacre? Signs can point to it, but unless they've got damn good detective skills, it's conjecture. Glad that there're no signs of a massacre so far though.

	29-04-2002 00:11									#9
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Well, if they have 52 bodies, less than half of which belong to civillians, and can make a rough estimate of the number of bodies remaining, then they can say that there was no massacre.

	29-04-2002 00:25									#10
	Put an end to popups!

To make it short, all the blood libels the Palestinians were spreading and many people here believed were proved to be wrong, wrong, wrong.

	29-04-2002 00:32									#11
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From the BBC today.

quote: Jenin inquiry Earlier on Sunday, the Israeli cabinet told the United Nations not to send a team to investigate what happened during an Israeli military assault on the Palestinian refugee camp of Jenin earlier this month. Israeli spokesman Reuven Rivlin accused the UN of retreating on agreements, and suggested its inquiry would be biased against Israel. The Palestinians say a massacre of hundreds of people resulted from the Israeli incursion into Jenin, while Israel acknowledges only dozens of casualties in what it describes as a legitimate operation to root out militants. The UN team was to investigate events at the Jenin refugee camp The UN Security Council is to meet later on Sunday to discuss Israel's refusal to allow the mission to go ahead. The Israeli Government has already delayed the UN team's arrival twice with objections about its make-up and mandate. The UN mission, which had been due to come to Israel on Sunday, is waiting in Geneva for permission to depart. Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres said it would now be pointless to send it. "Israel cannot accept the demand by the United Nations mission to decide which military people it will question," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wo...000/1956477.stm

We'll probably never know.

	29-04-2002 00:35									#12
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By Matthew Guttman

Hmm Guttman... just might be jewish. In that chase the entire article must be zionist lies

	29-04-2002 00:36									#13
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Good point.

	29-04-2002 01:04									#14
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The bodies of the dead were used in jewish holiday pastries. Saudi papers say so, so it must be true.

	29-04-2002 01:16									#15
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I don't get it. why is everyone going and dissing these pastries? grandma makes them real good. She says that it's from an old recipy book she got, but I saw her once reading some kind of scroll, and then a big red light appeared, and a guy with horns and a big star of david appeared. He said that grandma has been a loyal servant to the "cause" . I don't know what was he talking about , but I don't think i can trust grandma.

	29-04-2002 01:23									#16
	Re: Human Rights Watch: No evidence of massacre in Jenin Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Eli quote: Human Rights Watch: No evidence of massacre in Jenin

Cool. Now there's no excuse not to let the UN in.

This isn't some single country/power bloc here - this is the UN! If we can't trust them then we really have something to worry about!

	29-04-2002 02:02									#17
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We can't trust them, or at least Israel can't. They declared Zionism to be racism and endorsed the Palestinians "right to resistance." Is it so surprising that an organization should be no better or impartial than its members?

	29-04-2002 06:34									#18
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Oh, so are you saying that the Pals do not have the rights to resist invaders and oppressors, sort of like a lesser group?

	29-04-2002 06:51									#19
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The issue is whether Israel should be classified under "invaders and oppressors" who should be "resisted" by "all means." I think that once you say yes, you kind of give up your claim to be neutral.

	29-04-2002 06:58									#20
	Put an end to popups!

UR, NOBODY has the right to attack unarmed civilians - except the Palestinians, according to the UN.

	29-04-2002 07:00									#21
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Because Israel is fighting for its soveirgnty, it's an oppressor??

I don't get the connection --- so is the United States an oppressor because it is counter-attacking terrorist groups in Afghanistan??

	29-04-2002 07:14									#22
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"Because Israel is fighting for its soveirgnty, it's an oppressor??"

I can understand you being pro-Israel, but get the facts straight. Israel is not fighting for its soverignrt, the initifada never posed any serious threat to that. What it is fighting for hear is the continued occupation of Palestine (East Jerusalem, West Bank, Gaza Strip)

	29-04-2002 07:21									#23
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I already have the facts straight, Shi -- the extreme Palestinians and their lowly terrorists seek to completely eradicate Israel.

	29-04-2002 07:27									#24
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very true fun. Even yassir said when he got sovierengty he would amass a million men and march of Al-Queds (Jerusalem)

	29-04-2002 07:33									#25
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This is the UN for chrissake. Why should they auto-condemn Israel? There's surely at least some representatives there that are with Israel traditionally. Even given Bush's comments, it still seems certain that the US is more on Israel's side than on the Palestinians.

The Israeli government should just let the team in, let them see for themselves all of the military's actions were legit, then Israel can laugh at anyone who's an idiot enough to claim the contrary. If there's nothing to hide, don't hide it!

	29-04-2002 07:42									#26
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Human Rights Watch has been on my sh*t list ever since they lobbied for Plan Columbia. They have very little moral authority or credibility anymore.

Mr. Fun, if you occupy someone else's homeland, they have the right to use whatever means are necessary to remove those occupiers. If the US were occupied by the USSR, we would be applauding the Americans who were blowing themselves up to get at the enemy.

	29-04-2002 07:47									#27
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I guess this is one area where we strongly disagree, Chegitz.

I see nothing honorable about Palestinian adults duping their children into the "glory" of becoming the next wave of suicide bombers. NOTHING honorable about that at all.

	29-04-2002 07:47									#28
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Mr. Fun, if you occupy someone else's homeland, they have the right to use whatever means are necessary to remove those occupiers.

You have the right to wage a guerrilla war. You are never given the right to wage a terrorist campaign against innocent civilians.

	29-04-2002 08:07									#29
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt This is the UN for chrissake. Why should they auto-condemn Israel? There's surely at least some representatives there that are with Israel traditionally.

You, it turns out, are right. There are 3:

USA
Israel
Marshall Islands

No, I'm not making this up. The votes are actually like 200-3. And one of the 3 is the Marshall Islands.

	29-04-2002 08:39									#30
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quote: You have the right to wage a guerrilla war. You are never given the right to wage a terrorist campaign against innocent civilians.

So who made you the authority on what is right and wrong in all aspects of life?