29-04-2002 10:55									#1
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Hello

I thought I'd finnaly register for one simple reason, I am finishing my last Civ 2 scenario before I move on to Civ III

I am a newbie in terms of actually contributing to the forum, I have visited and downloaded from Apolyton for a couple of years, and have been playing Civ II and its various incarnations for several years. I have played a VERY large number of scenarios including the Lord of the Rings, Death and Rise of Empire (Byzantium), Underdark, Heroes of Beckhorn and the likes.

Funny thing is, though I have made several scenarios, they have all been for personal use. This one I am currently in the midst of finishing is one I have spent a LOT of time developing (The actual topic of the scenario is the same as my honors thesis in Australia, so the two have crossed paths quite wierdly).

What I am after is somebody to tell me how to upload it to Apolyton, and for several volounteers to take it through its test stages and give some advice.

Here is the basic theme and title.

The Komnenian Empire

It begins in 1081 with the ascenion of Alexios Komnenos, and ends around 1204. The basics aims are thus: Defeat the invasion of the Normans under Robert Guiscard, re-conquer Anatolia, rebuild Byzantium. The last crucial element is 1204 with the arrival of the Fourth Crusade. If you can defeat it, you win the game, if not, then the Capital is taken and you die. (This is only provisional, once the terrain, cities, units, and major events are in place, the goal will be refined)

Here are some of the features.

Large map (Largest using the standard Civ II sizes, not the oversized map) that is accurate regarding rivers, mountain ranges, towns, roads as regards Anatolia and the Balkans.

Extensive use of Barbarian cities and units. As Byzantium you will deal with incursions of Nomad units and entire Armies from the steppes, Turcomen nomads in Anatolia, and the Serbs.

Conquered cities release Refugees, which can either be resettled or slaughtered for money.

Piracy Pays! Destroy caravans and Merchant ships and gain cash rewards. Deploy Pirate vessels that are undectable to convential forces.

Armies. Every civ has a unique super unit, the field Army. These are expensive to build, slow, cumbersome, but incredibly powerful. The only way to defeat them is to deploy an army of your own.

Hero units such as Generals, Imperial flagships, the Alexios Comnenos unit, and units of other rulers such as Guiscards and the Turkish Sultan.

A diverse range of units, many unique to each civ (The draw back is you cannot research new units).

Extensive terrain and artwork (mainly ripped from other Scenarios, I will give credit)

I hope to recreat the mediterranean in the 12th century quite acurrately.

There are points and questions I did have:

Is it is possible to use a program of hex-editor to enable units to require food like the settler, but still have its definition as attack or defense (This would give armies a more strategic edge).

And would anybody be willing to create a good tech-tree for me, Technology development is not my strong point

I hope this gets a good response

	29-04-2002 16:30									#2
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Welcome Swampthing,

I gather you know the community quite well as a lurker - but it is more fun to participate.
Personally I am not a scenario designer of any note so i am unable to help with your specific questions, but I'm sure many will.

Good luck - sounds fun, SG[1]

	29-04-2002 18:36									#3
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As for your question of army and food, it doesn't seem easy too hex edit that, but maybe someone knows better than me.
In the rules.txt you can give all the units you want the settler ability along with offensive and defensive points. So you'll have an army that consumes food. The problem is that it will have the other settlers abilities too. But I am no scenario expert either

	29-04-2002 20:36									#4
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I'm afraid Julius is right about the food. The only thing that tells whether a unit uses food is the unit role in the rules text. So hex-editing isn't possible.
You can have armies use food but, in addition to what Julius said, the computer will not be able to succesfully use those units. But if there's only one playable civ anyway, you can kindly ask the players not to use the settler functions of their army, and give the AI civs another army unit which doesn't consume food.

Have you seen any other scenarios about this topic? Maciej Czyz made an excellent one about this exact same period (well, it starts a little earlier and ends much later)... You might want to have a look at it here (bottom of the page):
http://civ2000.civ2.gamigo.de/english/eciv2000play.htm

And concerning the tech tree. Are you really sure you need one? If you can't research for new units there isn't much to research for right? Maybe you could limit the techs to a limited set of special unresearchable ones (to control which civ can have which units), some extra techs for events etc... That shouldn't be too difficult, since you won't need to construct an entire tree.

But then again, I'm not sure what you had in mind, and I'm no scenario expert either.

	29-04-2002 20:50									#5
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Try to post at ScenarioLeague forums.
All the experienced scenario designers are there.

	29-04-2002 21:54									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Juggler Try to post at ScenarioLeague forums. All the experienced scenario designers are there.

Good idea... but I can take it another step

Good luck

	29-04-2002 22:56									#7
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Hmm... I know someone here who will like (or hate) this scenario's topic.
Let me advise you to download Komnenai by Maciej Czyz here: http://civ2000.civ2.gamigo.de/english/eciv2000play.htm (it's the last scenario on the page)

	30-04-2002 02:03									#8
	Got spare money?

Hmm... I know someone here who will like (or hate) this scenario's topic.

It is about me, he he he
(by the way Stefan...)
I'm always pleased when I have a chance to see some new byzantine scenario.
The idea with food is good, I myself wanted to do it but I don't know nothing about hex editing. Mail me at squonk@poczta.wp.pl
to see what You made this far. I promess to be nice. perhaps i can help You.
And yes, definitely try Komnenai (Fading Lights too if You like). Perhaps You'll like city styles or units... Always nice to think...

	30-04-2002 18:39									#9
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A tip to realize refugees...

Give "Guerrilla warfare" tech to a tribe, then set partisans as refugees, with settle abilities. Then swift "Guerrilla warfare" prerequired techs to "no, no,"... the effect is assured, i tried it with my scen and it works!!!

P.S. I learned it from Colonies 3.12 by John Ellis.

Important!!! Be sure to set Guerrila links to other techs for good or the game will crash!!!

	30-04-2002 19:11									#10
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That's a very nice thing, Prometeus.

I wonder, can You make two or more types of units pop up as partisants? Probably not, but worth to ask.

	30-04-2002 20:09									#11
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Thanks for the advice so far, but I had the refugee-partisan idea worked out and implemented from day one.

I even did the artwork of a helpless woman and child myself (used a pre-existing icon from Fantastic worlds as a basis)

As for the army, I might use the settle idea, though I would give free reign for players to use the settler abilities, as armies could and did construct roads, canals, forts, ect.

Chinese history is rife with such examples.

The key problem is as an army proper they could not fortify, but this raises the idea of building forts itself as a fortified camp for the Army, but then just have several armies building forts in the enemy territory, occupy them, and laugh as their pitiful companies of individual units attack me......

though I have noticed something odd, quite intelligent for the civ 2 AI.

When ever I gave an army in a city or stationed on good defensive terrain, the enemy bypass it complete, unless they have a field army deployed themselves.

Que OUCH OUCH OUCH.

Oh well, keep the ideas coming. I've tried the Komnenid scenario, I like his ideas and might borrow some of his artwork and pictures (hope the guy who made it does not take offense, but he as an INCREDIBLY accurate model of the Byzantine Emperor, and as a Byzantinist my integrity would be compromised by not using it, well, thats my justification).