29-04-2002 22:31									#1
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After playing Civ III for the past few months, I have reached a conclusion. Iron is the MVR, most valuable resource. No iron, no swordsmen, no railroad, no chance. What do you all think?

	29-04-2002 22:35									#2
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Iron is a good choice.

Then rubber. No rubber, no infantry, no tanks.

And oil. No oil, no tanks, no airplanes, no modern ships.

	29-04-2002 23:32									#3
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Without iron there's no railroad so theres no boom in production/food. In my games, its the only "must have".

	29-04-2002 23:38									#4
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Ha!
Has anyone gone without railroads lately? I think coal also belongs on this most-wanted list, though my 1st inclination was rubber.

Bottom line -- does anyone (in a half-way successful game) ever go without anything?

JB

	30-04-2002 00:01									#5
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Maybe I should clarify... If I don't have iron within reach of my civilization, I'm sunk. Sure, you can trade for all resources but if I have to trade for iron, I'd just as soon restart the game.

	30-04-2002 01:12									#6
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Coal and Iron allow for an early lead in the game, so one can win other resourses.

	30-04-2002 01:17									#7
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Grrr´s right, Iron and Coal gives an edge visavi the other civs. So I would have to say that these are the most important resources.

	30-04-2002 01:19									#8
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quote: Originally posted by kcbob Maybe I should clarify... If I don't have iron within reach of my civilization, I'm sunk. Sure, you can trade for all resources but if I have to trade for iron, I'd just as soon restart the game.

If there´s iron near your border on enemy territory, there´s always the ´ole sneak attack-option available

	30-04-2002 01:24									#9
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Iron is incredibly important for my style...although the AI seems to value uranium pretty highly; the americans offered me 110 gold/turn for some on my last game.

	30-04-2002 01:55									#10
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Iron isn't really important in the early going, but I want it by the time I've hit the middle ages. Obviously, it's huge once you have Steam Power, along with Coal.

My intial gut reaction, though, was rubber. No rubber = no infantry & no tanks. You can still at least have infantry w/o oil, though that's a tough situation also.

Upon further reflection, the most painful for me would be a lack of horses. Of course, this just about never happens, so I didn't think of it at first... but I would hate to be deprived of horsemen/knights/cavalry. OUCH.

-Arrian

	30-04-2002 05:59									#11
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From my perspective it is Horses. If I have Horses it won't matter where future resources are, I'll have them all.

From the AI's perspective it is Iron and Rubber. I try to keep them from getting their hands on these two. They are the only 2 things that can slow down the Horsemen/Knights/Cavalry rush.

	30-04-2002 06:35									#12
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i agree with the previous two that horses are the most important to me. I usually play as the iriquois and thus, no horses = no mw's=more difficult ancient age. I like to get a quick jump sometimes, and they last for a long time. Not to mention no knights no cav's. Thats a long time to tanks to be slugging it out on foot.

	30-04-2002 09:23									#13
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There's that popular (and sometimes absolutely necessary) tactic of expanding/attacking aggressively early on. Without iron there's none of that, and you can't get your needed advantage until much later.

	30-04-2002 09:50									#14
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Either Iron or rubber. If you don't have iron you miss out on the most potent Ancient and Medieval Units. Without rubber you lose Infantry and Tanks.

	30-04-2002 19:29									#15
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Depends on what civ you play as. If you're the Iroquois, then horses are by far the most important resource; if you have those then you can build your UU and conquer everything around you in the ancient ages. If you're the Persians, iron is critical for exactly the same reason.

	30-04-2002 20:10									#16
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How about luxury resources? Usually not, I suppose, but if you start with none, it's very annoying.

Iron is big through Industrial...then, take your pick. Rubber?

	30-04-2002 20:12									#17
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I'd say horses too. If I don't see horses in a reasonable distance of my cities as soon as I discover The Wheel, I usually start a new game. Horses are faithful, they never deplete (same with rubber). I don't really care about own iron (but I like to prevent the AI to get some). I don't need it till chivalry, and by this time, my horsemen conquered at least 3 iron deposits. Swordsmen are nice toys, but far too slow for me. After this, pretty much every resource is a must-have. Saltpeter for cavalry, coal for railroads, rubber for infantry and tanks, oil for tanks and a modern navy, aluminium and uranium for modern weapons and spaceship parts.

	30-04-2002 20:26									#18
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Tangent room, table for eight, please.

Maybe I should rething horsemen. Are they really that valuable? If so, why haven't I been using them?

Sorry for the tangent, but hey, it's my thread, n'est-ce pas?

	30-04-2002 21:31									#19
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Horsemen are valued because of their retreat ability and the fact that they can move up to 6 tiles in one turn (with roads of course). The retreat increases their survivability and their range is double that of swordsmen or archers. Since they are the same cost as swordsmen, it is a question of preference, and many people here prefer the horsemen. Swordsmen are more likely to win a combat, but overall, less horsemen wind up dead after the same battle.

I beleive there was a thread about Swordsmen vs Horsemen or somesuch in the "Strategy" forum.

	01-05-2002 01:43									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson From my perspective it is Horses. If I have Horses it won't matter where future resources are, I'll have them all.

That's exactly how I feel. With horsemen, I could quickly get iron since I need iron to upgrade my horsemen to knights.

	01-05-2002 01:57									#21
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Iron is a good choice. With Iron a player can usually conquer any other resource. Without Iron a player may have a hard time. Horses are ok, but not enough against Hoplites, Legionaires or Pikemen. Iron also is needed for Knights for the first war on Large maps.

What I was thinking is the an early Cow is the best. I'll take an early cow icon on grass over most anything else. Cows give a huge production and population boost, more so than other starting resources. Wheat on Flood plains is good too, but that is really two, not one.

	01-05-2002 02:23									#22
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Horses, then Iron, then Coal. Usually if I have the first two I can "acquire" the rest

	01-05-2002 02:51									#23
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kcbob,

I'm all about the horseman rush. I've developed a very specific strategy dedicated to it. Basically, I use Japan (start with wheel), build a bunch of vet chariots, save up gold while avoiding the discovery of horseback riding, and then *poof* upgrade them all to horsemen when I'm ready. All of a sudden I have 20 horsemen or so to throw at the AI. I usually try to bring along some swordsmen, but can easily do without them.

Horsemen vs. Swordsmen is all about survivability speed, and upgradeability. Since the RNG often gives wacky results, I'd rather have horsies that can retreat. I tried a pure swordsmen rush once, and took horrible casualties (I recall losing 6 swordsmen in a row to a spearman in a size6 city on grassland, not crossing a river).

Horsemen become Knights (or equivalent UU) which become Cavalry (or equivalent). Swordsmen are a dead end. Useful here and there, but I'd rather put the bulk of my resources into something with a long upgrade path.

-Arrian

	01-05-2002 16:59									#24
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I hadn't thought about the upgrade of horsemen into knights/cavalry. I might have to give that a try in my next new game.

	01-05-2002 18:04									#25
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It has got to be horses. Like others have said, with horses you can get the other resources, especially since I am also an Iroquois nut and mounted ponies rule

R:PM

	02-05-2002 01:42									#26
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With horses, you're not going to get rubber or oil. You'll get iron, but not the later resources.

It's important to get oil and rubber in your territory. I am, of course, assuming that most players don't advance light-years beyond the AI in tech.

Cavalry vs infantry... a mess of dead horses and guys with sabers.

	02-05-2002 01:43									#27
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Unless of course, you plan on conquering the world with horsemen and knights.

	02-05-2002 01:46									#28
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I think it's indisputably Iron, and a second choice for me would be oil.

I can go a whole game sans horses.

	02-05-2002 02:08									#29
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay37 Iron is incredibly important for my style...although the AI seems to value uranium pretty highly; the americans offered me 110 gold/turn for some on my last game.

Why would you ever trade uranium to the trigger happy AI? I guess you can use the 110/turn to clean up after armageddon.

-Apolex

	02-05-2002 03:49									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Apolex Why would you ever trade uranium to the trigger happy AI? I guess you can use the 110/turn to clean up after armageddon.

LOL! Very funny.