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Which civs could be replaced by a worthier civ?
This poll is closed. |
| Americans |
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31 |
31.63% |
| Aztecs |
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13 |
13.27% |
| Iroquois |
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58 |
59.18% |
| English |
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10 |
10.20% |
| French |
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12 |
12.24% |
| Germans |
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10 |
10.20% |
| Russians |
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6 |
6.12% |
| Romans |
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5 |
5.10% |
| Greeks |
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6 |
6.12% |
| Egyptians |
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5 |
5.10% |
| Zulus |
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35 |
35.71% |
| Babylonians |
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12 |
12.24% |
| Persians |
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9 |
9.18% |
| Indians |
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11 |
11.22% |
| Japanese |
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12 |
12.24% |
| Chinese |
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7 |
7.14% |
| Total: |
98 voters |
100% |
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:19
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I'm a hardcore Western Civ/European history buff, but I say enough European civs already. There are 6 out of 16, not including the Americans (which is essentially a European civilizations). Now I like the Dutch, Vikings and Spanish a lot, too, but enough is enough!
I just played a huge map with correct starting locales. Europe is just too crowded as it is, if you consider it from this perspective. Yeah, it doesn't apply to random maps...but I like playing on earth more anyway.
I'd like to see 2 more African civs, Mali and Carthage. Asia should add the Mongols and Indonesia. In the Americas, I'd add the Mayas and Incas both (S. America is woefully unrepresented). Perhaps even another native american group like the Souix. N. America is huge and there's no one to use it!
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Jethro83
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Newcastle, Australia
Mar 2002
time: 15:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I'd like to see 2 more African civs, Mali and Carthage. Asia should add the Mongols and Indonesia. In the Americas, I'd add the Mayas and Incas both (S. America is woefully unrepresented). Perhaps even another native american group like the Souix. N. America is huge and there's no one to use it! |
Both America and the Iroquois are Expansionist. That means that both will swallow up that vast amount of land very quickly. But I do agree that South America is badly unrepresented, and the Incas are necessary to fill the gap.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by F18fett
Aborigines going back 60,000 years? Where did you get that? |
By accident when I was searching for information on Neanderthal DNA the other day for a OT discussion.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/mungoman/default.htm
Which isn't the link I found the other day. That was on the Scientific American site I think.
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danimal
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The French are garbage....merde. Throughout history they have been a nation of backbiting cowardly whimps. If not for the USA...all the french would still be speaking German. And don't tell me about Napoleon...the big ***** got beat in the end.
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bigvic
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Columbia, S.C.
Nov 2001
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I'm a hardcore Western Civ/European history buff, but I say enough European civs already. There are 6 out of 16, not including the Americans (which is essentially a European civilizations). Now I like the Dutch, Vikings and Spanish a lot, too, but enough is enough!
I just played a huge map with correct starting locales. Europe is just too crowded as it is, if you consider it from this perspective. Yeah, it doesn't apply to random maps...but I like playing on earth more anyway.
I'd like to see 2 more African civs, Mali and Carthage. Asia should add the Mongols and Indonesia. In the Americas, I'd add the Mayas and Incas both (S. America is woefully unrepresented). Perhaps even another native american group like the Souix. N. America is huge and there's no one to use it! |
The secret is to use a distorted map, w/ Europe and near east enlarged. Regardless, if there were 1 buzillion civs to choose from, you could only play with 16.
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH
I disagree. I think you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate that Germany was more than a European power. Other european civs such as the Spanish were more global in scope or the Scandinavians who have had more influence for a much longer time should have been included before the Germans. |
Absolutely not. Since the time of the Roman Empire, the Germans have altered the course of Western history. First, both England and France owe their origins to the Germanic tribes, and the Germanic tribes spread from norther europe as far as northern Africa. The descendants of the Franks became France and of the Angles and Saxons became the English.
In addition, the Protestant Reformation, which began in Germany, has arguably had as much world-wide impact than anything done by any other European power. And then of course, much of the 20th century's history was a product of the world dealing with Germany's military and imperialist aspirations.
I'd also point out that the contributions to culture--music, art, literature, religion, SCIENCE, philosophy, etc. from the Germans far outstrips anything coming from the Spanish or Scandinavians in terms of world impact.
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SpencerH
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Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Absolutely not. Since the time of the Roman Empire, the Germans have altered the course of Western history. First, both England and France owe their origins to the Germanic tribes, and the Germanic tribes spread from norther europe as far as northern Africa. The descendants of the Franks became France and of the Angles and Saxons became the English. |
If we follow that logic back there is only one civ (at least based on modern theory) the africans. I'm refering to Germany as a recognized country. I'm not refering to germanic tribes or including the Austro-Hungarian Empire (that far eclipsed Germany for most of its existence including fostering much of the cultural contributions you mentioned).
quote:
In addition, the Protestant Reformation, which began in Germany, has arguably had as much world-wide impact than anything done by any other European power. And then of course, much of the 20th century's history was a product of the world dealing with Germany's military and imperialist aspirations. |
The protestant reformation was important. I'm not sure whether those developments were German (again, as a country). Lets not forget that "Germany" grew out of the remains of the Holy Roman Empire and that for much of its time it was an loose conferacy of states rather than a country as such. Perhaps Martin Luther would have been appalled to have been thought of as a German!
quote:
I'd also point out that the contributions to culture--music, art, literature, religion, SCIENCE, philosophy, etc. from the Germans far outstrips anything coming from the Spanish or Scandinavians in terms of world impact. |
I disagree.
Last edited by SpencerH on 02-05-2002 at 20:15
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH
If we follow that logic back there is only one civ (at least based on modern theory) the africans. I'm refering to Germany as a recognized country.
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But this is not the standard that Civ3 uses to recognize a civilations. And many historians consider the Holy Roman Empire, which was in existence since 800 AD, as the "German State" pre-unified 1870 Germany. At any rate, to discount Germans as a civilization because they didn't fit a narrow nation-state definition based on 19th century nationalism notions is patently silly. Also, under such criteria the Scandanavians wouldn't qualify, either.
quote:
I'm not refering to germanic tribes or including the Austro-Hungarian Empire (that far eclipsed Germany for most of its existence including fostering much of the cultural contributions you mentioned). |
Excluding Austria from German civilization is silly, as Austrians are German. They speak German and are ethnically German. And much of the cultural achievments I mentioned were not Austrian either, but from the German states. Bach wasn't Austrian.
quote:
The protestant reformation was important. I'm not sure whether those developments were German (again, as a country) |
And again, excluding pre-1870 German achievements is silly and arbitrary. The reformation began in Germany.
That's your right, but I think you'll find yourself in a very small minority.
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02-05-2002 06:47
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