01-05-2002 12:44									#1
	The Dummy Guide to Trade. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I recently developed a stratagy which makes the need for all city improvements other then temples obsolete. And is great for use in diplo games

What you do is as soon as you discouver trade, research ships and if you can build lighthouse. Then find the nearest civ and make sure it is on a island (100% bonus) close by. Then find its biggest port city.

Hopefully by now you have 7 or 8 cities, go 70% tax and rush buy caravans in every single city, and buy ships in your port cities, then rush these caravans over to the other civ and send them into his biggest city. As long as you don't research either navigation or invention (if they aren't discouvered you get an addition 200% trade bonus) you will get between 100 and 800 gold/science a caravan. Once your rolling use all the extra cash to buy temples and settlars to build more cities. I have used this in duels to get 1000 gold a turn by 1ad on diety (1x1x)... Anyways once your up to delivering 4 or 5 caravans a turn you will be at one tech a turn, with close to 1000 gold a turn. If you run out of commodities just reset them. If possible just build hides caravans that way you won't need to reset them.

For the math behind it.
A caravan costs 125 gold to rush buy. If the average bonus is 200-300 gold/ caravan you just made 75+ gold... AND you get an equal amount of science.

	01-05-2002 13:24									#2
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Oh yeah? Well why did you have to steal trade off me at 400AD in our current game? Huh? Huh? Answer me that!

	01-05-2002 13:35									#3
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Er, isn't trade required for his caravan strategy?

Thanks for the tip on navigation/invention. I didn't know about that.
Q: What size landmass defines your "island" above? Or rather what's the cutoff between island and continent?

	01-05-2002 13:53									#4
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He sayeth one thing and doeth another

	01-05-2002 19:43									#5
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Call me a dummy, but how do you reset commodities

	01-05-2002 21:53									#6
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Er, isn't trade required for his caravan strategy? Thanks for the tip on navigation/invention. I didn't know about that. Q: What size landmass defines your "island" above? Or rather what's the cutoff between island and continent?

Anything with a different cont number gives you a 100% trade bonus.

	01-05-2002 21:57									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Oh yeah? Well why did you have to steal trade off me at 400AD in our current game? Huh? Huh? Answer me that!

Your map is 5 billion and you have hills and plains, no grasslands. Not only that your port cities are size 1 and 2 in monarchy... I would only get 50 or 60 gold off you per caravan. To get over 150 gold a caravan the other civ needs at least 8 base trade in the destination city.

	01-05-2002 22:01									#8
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quote: Originally posted by atawa Call me a dummy, but how do you reset commodities

If the city producing caravans has a silk route, send it a silk caravan from another city that has bigger base trade.

	01-05-2002 22:04									#9
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Trade = ( trade of home city + trade of destination city + 4 ) / 8

Note that it does not directly depend on city size or distance. The following (cumulative) modifiers apply:

Both cities are yours -50%
Freight instead of caravan +50%
Cities connected by road +50%
Cities connected by rail +50%
Cities on different continents +100%
Airports in both cities +50%
Superhighways in home city +50%


The one time bonus payment is calculated as follows:

Payment = ( ( distance + 10 ) x ( trade of both cities ) ) / 24

It increases if the destination city demands one of these goods (double these figures if the city is not yours):

Silver, Cloth, Wine +50%
Silk, Spice, Gems, Gold +100%
Oil +150%
Uranium +200%


The final bonus payment figure is then doubled during the first 200 game turns or until both Navigation and Invention are discovered. It is reduced by one third after the discovery of Railroad, and by another third after the discovery of Flight.

	01-05-2002 22:15									#10
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Markusf -- Awesome info for a relative newbie who's still trying to balance the different game factors.

Seeing Trade in a whole new light!

thx...

	01-05-2002 22:20									#11
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit Markusf -- Awesome info for a relative newbie who's still trying to balance the different game factors. Seeing Trade in a whole new light! thx...

lol, trade is the game... you can also reduce anyones trade by over 50% just by placing a caravan, diplomat or any kind of unit anywhere along the optimal trade path between 2 cities.

	01-05-2002 23:19									#12
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I usually go for Trade early, but then find myself competing for WOWs instead of establishing routes with my camels.

Tell me more about the Optimum Trade Path. Sounds like a physical path (line of sight?) or something -- and that would presumably affect where you build roads, how you place your cities, etc.


*(-Jrabbit settles in for today's lesson)*

	02-05-2002 04:49									#13
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quote: Originally posted by markusf Your map is 5 billion and you have hills and plains, no grasslands. Not only that your port cities are size 1 and 2 in monarchy...

How do you know that?

You haven't explored the map yet

I'm not going to make an accusation

yet

	02-05-2002 05:15									#14
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Sounds like markus has got hold of a copy of the "Civ 2 Official Strategy Guide" by David Ellis. Or someone has. All these formulae - and modifiers - are in the book. As I posted in the City Bribe thread, though, some of the formulae have been found to be suspect by the arithmetically-inclined members of this site. Which isn't to say the Trade forumla is suspect. I just wish I could remember, for the benefit of all of us, which formulae were shot down ...

	02-05-2002 05:50									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse How do you know that? You haven't explored the map yet I'm not going to make an accusation yet

You have 1 port city that i know of and its size 2.
My biggest cities are size 4 and 5.. When going 0% lux all your biggest cities show in the T5.. at least they did when i last checked, none of your cities where over size 4

	02-05-2002 05:55									#16
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Sounds like markus has got hold of a copy of the "Civ 2 Official Strategy Guide" by David Ellis. Or someone has. All these formulae - and modifiers - are in the book. As I posted in the City Bribe thread, though, some of the formulae have been found to be suspect by the arithmetically-inclined members of this site. Which isn't to say the Trade forumla is suspect. I just wish I could remember, for the benefit of all of us, which formulae were shot down ...

yes, reposted them as many people here keep forgetting them or don't know about them. And yes the trade formula is a little off for prenavigation, and invention you actually get double what is predicted..


I played a test game with dagmine today.. 800 gold a turn at 1ad and about 30 techs.. I traded dagmine 3 techs at the start. We didn't max out trade in our cities or anything.. at 300 bc i had 30 caravans just sitting around..

	02-05-2002 07:33									#17
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quote: Originally posted by markusf You have 1 port city that i know of and its size 2. My biggest cities are size 4 and 5.. When going 0% lux all your biggest cities show in the T5.. at least they did when i last checked, none of your cities where over size 4

Okay, now name all my cities

And don't expect me to trade with you

No silk for you!

	02-05-2002 08:48									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Okay, now name all my cities And don't expect me to trade with you No silk for you!

lol i don't even have a save of the game.

they all had screwed up numbers and symbols. lol I think i uncouvered like 6 cities.. Remember i have a whole bunch of knights running all over your map.

	02-05-2002 09:40									#19
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Good game that.

	02-05-2002 17:30									#20
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Unless you have vet ships, a lot of players will attempt to stop you from delivering caravans to their cities. Losing ships full of caravans can have a significant impact on your cost benefit analysis.

RAH

	02-05-2002 18:30									#21
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Yep but in bigger MP games you can usually count on having at least some kind of offshore ally (hopefully).

	02-05-2002 18:41									#22
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We usually play on small maps with large land masses. As a result there are very few offshore opportunities. The last game I played in, when I finally found continent 2, it was three squares in total. Continent 3 was a one square Island. There was no Continent 4. That makes it a little more difficult.

	02-05-2002 18:50									#23
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I generally play 4-ways on 50x60 maps, make them islandy as that makes it a bit more interesting. I used to play on small map continents all the time but there isn't much challenge left on the zone with that setting, and the game normally ends quick on 2x moves.

You don't need a big continent to get a nice offshore trading city or two remember - in fact those sea squares make it much more ideal on 2x production as you're going to get more trade for bigger bonuses.

	03-05-2002 01:02									#24
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But you have to find them. And on a small map, if there is only one or two of them, the player closest usually gobbles them up quite quickly.

	03-05-2002 03:12									#25
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quote: Originally posted by rah But you have to find them. And on a small map, if there is only one or two of them, the player closest usually gobbles them up quite quickly.

If your playing 2x, the bonus is huge to begin with... Doesn't matter if your on another island or not.. Remember that game a few weeks ago? me and war4ever where using caravans, i got to spies by the end of the session. A tech every turn.

	03-05-2002 03:18									#26
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Yeah, you were cruising in that one. I was getting two techs every three turn trading in commie and still falling behind, but right before the end I dropped back into rep to pump up the pop for the final PG.

Where you guys trading caravans. That makes a diff. I usually don't let his near my cities.

RAH

	03-05-2002 03:25									#27
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quote: Originally posted by rah Yeah, you were cruising in that one. I was getting two techs every three turn trading in commie and still falling behind, but right before the end I dropped back into rep to pump up the pop for the final PG. Where you guys trading caravans. That makes a diff. I usually don't let his near my cities. RAH

no cara gifting is cheating..

I told him early where to build his cities and he did.. Near the end he had a city on the water and i was just cranking out cara's to get 3 routes everywhere. I then sent them to his big city by ship... I had 120 science in size 8 cities. water is the key in 2x !!

	03-05-2002 04:05									#28
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Markus forgets to mention that this doesn't work so hot if the other guy takes all his trade out of the cities you're sending caravans to. And you have to roll over and take it up the ass while he sits there flooding caravans all over you. And you have not not build any army or sink any of his boats. And you have to not expand at all lest you become too enormous and powerful for him. And you need to be a republic in order for him to get mega trade anyways. Did I mention you aren't supposed to attack him at all while he's flooding you with caravans?

	03-05-2002 04:50									#29
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quote: Originally posted by markusf no cara gifting is cheating.. I told him early where to build his cities and he did.. Near the end he had a city on the water and i was just cranking out cara's to get 3 routes everywhere. I then sent them to his big city by ship... I had 120 science in size 8 cities. water is the key in 2x !!

Actually i meant "did you have a trade treaty?"
which based on your answer, I can figure it out. I know you guys wouldn't gift um.

I'm with eyes on this one, much more fun to disrupt that type of thing.

RAH

	03-05-2002 04:56									#30
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Trading with Eyes of Night - what a novel thought

I trade with other civs but I think I'm going to change that soon.