01-05-2002 22:23									#1
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Hello!

How would you change the movement of modern naval units in Civ3?

I'm getting more and more pissed at the naval combat system, not only because sailing ships are so quickly obsolescent but also because it takes a fleet forever to reach any given point. I'm playing on a large map, and 20 turns for a steam powered fleet to sail around my continent, that's just unacceptable.

Since I'm not going to change the rest of the combat system (apart from the Immo/Legion issue) I was thinking that it would be cool to change all ships except for galleys to explorer movement (giving them road bonus) and adjusting the values so a modern ship gets to do 12 moves per turn or fight and do 9 moves.
Galleys would keep their old 3 moves w/o road bomus, otherwise the 1+ bonus of the lighthouse would seriously overpower them.

But since there is no way to change rules in midgame and I've got no experience in modding, I would like to hear your opinions... have you done something similar, and does the road bonus work at all for ships?

Looking forward to your input,

Herr David

	02-05-2002 00:56									#2
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quote: I was thinking that it would be cool to change all ships except for galleys to explorer movement (giving them road bonus) and adjusting the values so a modern ship gets to do 12 moves per turn or fight and do 9 moves.

that would be cool, it would speed them up, but not totally overpower them, since it would take 3 moves to attack

	02-05-2002 01:15									#3
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Now that I've thought about it, I'll make it 9 (3x3) moves for modern steam or nuclear powered units. 12 would be excessive, and it would make BBs hit-and-run units. No point in that. Nine ought to be enough for fast ships, besides, doesn't Magellan's Voyage add one movement point as well?

If so, I'll have to change it or have it expire at the end of the Age of Sail.

Naval attacks also have to be changed... no frigate is going to sink a destroyer. And somehow BBs should be able to shoot back at airplanes.

	02-05-2002 08:22									#4
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quote: And somehow BBs should be able to shoot back at airplanes.

Give it interception? I think that's the closest you're going to get... it'll be sort of an all-or-nothing. The airplane either hits the target, or it doesn't.

Furthermore, I have huge movements for my navy for the very same reason you said. I think I currently have Transports set at 12 moves per turn.

	02-05-2002 15:19									#5
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How exactly does interception work with BBs? I guess you give them a range 1 or 0 - do they just randomly shoot down a few planes? That would be kinda useful, and quite probably the best thing we can get with Civ3.
If I remember correctly, an interception unit can only attempt to do one intercept per turn, right?

	02-05-2002 18:49									#6
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Ancient units should have a hard time crossing dangerous water, so you can therefore increase the movement cost for sea and ocean to 2, and in the same time give the old units +1 to the moves. That would speed them up following the cost, but would slow them down on the high seas.

	02-05-2002 21:50									#7
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Personally, I made the earliest ships 3, sailing ships 5, and modern ships 8-11. Subs 6, nucs 10. I left all water tiles as 1. This seems to work well for me. My only complaint is that since a city's influence doesnt extend into the ocean, its easy to jump out of nowhere, bomard a city and get away without any retaliation.

	02-05-2002 22:50									#8
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This gets a bit complex, but it works great. I did a huge overhaul of naval warfare in my game, and it's made a big difference. Take as many of these ideas as you want.

All naval units have their movement multiplied by 2, except subs. I'm tweaking the exact amounts still, but this brings primitive boats to 4-6, and the high-end boats to 10.

Subs have move 2, Nuclear 3, but get the "all terrain as roads" flag bringing them to 6 and 9 squares per turn. They also have the Privateer's "Hidden Nationality" feature.

Coastal squares take 1 MP, Sea take 2 MPs, and Ocean take 3 MPs.

The result is, ancient era units move well along coastlines, but late-game trans-oceanic assaults can't be done in one turn, giving time for interdiction. Subs are the ideal attackers in the high seas, although it effectively costs them 3 squares to attack. Fleets will tend to move from island to island instead of appearing out of nowhere, and this makes Coastal Fortresses much stronger since your enemy will have to either go around through deeper water (losing MP) or take the hit.

Oh, I also added a Modern Era wonder, Global Positioning System, at Satellites that acts the same as Lighthouse/Magellan's except that it doesn't need to be built in a coastal city. This really helps subs since it effectively gives them 3 squares.

I also split the Harbor (cost 80, Mapmaking, upkeep 1, Militaristic) into three separate facilities with upkeep 1 each:
Docks: cost 40, Mapmaking, +1 food per sea square, Industrious
Harbor: cost 60, Engineering, links trade routes, needs Docks, Commercial
Shipyard: cost 80, Shipbuilding (new tech between Invention and Astronomy), produces veteran sea units and upgrades units, needs Docks, Militaristic
(Offshore Platform requires Harbor)

The Great Lighthouse gives free Docks, and Magellan's Voyage gives a free Harbor. Thanks to the changes in 1.21f, this no longer screws up the dependencies and will lower your upkeep bills if you already had one.

I also tweaked a few units; Privateers are earlier (at Shipbuilding) and are the Barbarian naval unit, Ironclads are 6 attack (but still 4 bombard), Man-O-War holds one foot unit, Marines got moved up the tech tree but lowered in stats to 6/4/1 (and are upgraded Swordsmen), Paratroopers are 8/6/1 Amphibious (and are upgraded Marines), and Battleships get Blitz (which lets them really rip apart cities). I'm in the middle of adding the Modern Battleship and Supercarrier to the Modern Era.