01-05-2002 23:41									#1
	Should the XP come with a new Modern Era? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Most threads about the XP involve:

1) MP
2) More Civs

I would like to see how much support is out there for remaking the modern era

	02-05-2002 01:50									#2
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The Modern Era is badly designed. It needs an overhaul.

I was thinking about doing a simple mod myself but now I will wait to see what the expansion brings.

	02-05-2002 01:55									#3
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I couldnt vote for any, I think the modern era needs to be re-worked (patched) prior to the XP.

The XP needs to expand the game not fix things that should have been right the first, second, or third times.

	02-05-2002 02:04									#4
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I vote for no. I would rather see the existing eras improved and enhanced than add new ones.

The modern era is considered by most to be the worst. I have read several people who quit playing after ancient or so. I think they definitely need to improve the current modern era, not make more of it!

	02-05-2002 04:23									#5
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quote: Originally posted by nato I vote for no. I would rather see the existing eras improved and enhanced than add new ones. The modern era is considered by most to be the worst. I have read several people who quit playing after ancient or so. I think they definitely need to improve the current modern era, not make more of it!

I believe the yes vote is for redoing the Modern Era. Not extending another Modern beyond the first Modern (if that made sense),

	02-05-2002 04:46									#6
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Oh I was looking at the bold type that said "new modern era". I thought it meant adding a whole new era, something like CTP's "diamond" era. My bad.

Now that I read the poll options closer, the yes sounds like what I meant. I will vote for that in the actual poll then. Like I said, I agree modern era could use a little work.

I know that late game exasperates the less fun aspects of 4x games, with so many more units and cities to manage. But still, it really does seem like the drop off in fun is higher than it should be.

	02-05-2002 04:52									#7
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yes, redesign of the modern era would be more than welcome!

	02-05-2002 05:01									#8
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I say that most of the eras do need work.

1. Ancient Era... No problems here.

2. Middle Ages... Magnetism and the Age of Sail come way too late. 10 turns after Galleons and Frigates, you get Ironclads and Transports. But I'd mod these so that they occur earlier. I'd also mod Navigation to happen earlier (as explorers also come too late).

3. Industrial Age... Again, no problems come to my mind.

4. Modern... Indeed, something needs to be done about modern era. It should gain greater importance.

But I think that adding Near-Future and Distant-Future eras would also be an improvement. As well as being able to build on multiple planets, and encountering extra-terrestrial civs (even being able to play as an ET race).

	02-05-2002 15:53									#9
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quote: Originally posted by LordAzreal But I think that adding Near-Future and Distant-Future eras would also be an improvement. As well as being able to build on multiple planets, and encountering extra-terrestrial civs (even being able to play as an ET race).

Thats for modders and scenario makers. If they could make more eras... hint hint?

	02-05-2002 19:07									#10
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Absolutely... Modern Era is by far the weakest part of the game, especially cause you just don't get to play it in. A major uverhaul needed.

	02-05-2002 20:02									#11
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Firstly, the Modern era needs to be longer to until 2100. Also, more units and city improvments need to be made available. And for the love of humanity make the diplomacy a little bit deeper than a glorified trade advisor.

	02-05-2002 20:29									#12
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I don't quite think yet we need a future age like in CtP, but I would like a little bit of near future. BTW, where's the Cloning technology? We have already discovered this!

	03-05-2002 02:14									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

IMO, the main flaw of the current modern era is, that you (and the AI) automatically have to go for the SS-discoveries. Therefore you almost never research Miniaturazation, Genetics or Robotics. At least I never got that far (maybe I use the wrong strategy?) and I would like to discover these advances as well.

Yes, I think the modern era needs rework, but I agree with SpencerH, it should be fixed in the current version, not in the XP.

	03-05-2002 02:36									#14
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I think Solvers got a point, though space cities would be great

	03-05-2002 02:42									#15
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Lucilla, I find the only way to go for the "fun" advances in the ME is when you've already battered all the other civs to one or two cities. Even if they have the tech, they never have enough production to amke a SS challenge meaningful, but the aim is to win, right, and who needs genetics to win ?

-Jam

	03-05-2002 02:58									#16
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by War of Art ... and who needs genetics to win ? -Jam

Well, if cloning would enable you to make a duplicate unit at half price....

	03-05-2002 03:02									#17
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I think the only major overhaul the modern era needs is to make the SS components take more techs to get; you should basically have researched the whole tech tree (or, 95% of it). As it stands, previously important techs like robotics and stealth are basically a waste of time until after The Laser, at which point you usually only have less than 5 years until you launch the ship anyways.

	03-05-2002 03:10									#18
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True, that would be nice, but how useful would that be when your core cities are producing Modern Armor in 2 turns. (I know... MArmor in 1 turn, but think of the unit costs) Perhaps the advance of privatisation, allowing a wonder which would pay mantainance costs for industrial improvements ( a bit like Smith's ? ) It's an idea. Or turn off SS victory. Cure for cancer gives you one more turn of war under a Demo govmt. so then genetics is handy. Longevity ? Why does anyone need faster growth so late in the game ? Most of my cities are already maxed out at 30ish, and making pollution problems even with R-centres and MassTran.

-Jam

	03-05-2002 03:14									#19
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I don't think it needs reworiking.

It more needs a little bit of TWEAKING.

	03-05-2002 03:30									#20
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quote: Originally posted by War of Art True, that would be nice, but how useful would that be when your core cities are producing Modern Armor in 2 turns. (I know... MArmor in 1 turn, but think of the unit costs) Perhaps the advance of privatisation, allowing a wonder which would pay mantainance costs for industrial improvements ( a bit like Smith's ? ) It's an idea. Or turn off SS victory. Cure for cancer gives you one more turn of war under a Demo govmt. so then genetics is handy. Longevity ? Why does anyone need faster growth so late in the game ? Most of my cities are already maxed out at 30ish, and making pollution problems even with R-centres and MassTran. -Jam

Yes, growing at that stage doesn't give any particular benefit. And speed production of units only makes sense, when you are at war. But maybe cloning could offer other benfiits like decreased war weariness? How about decreasing culture output with cloning (completely new concept, just brainstorming...)?

	03-05-2002 04:25									#21
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Vielleicht bin ich dumm, aber warum wollte ich weniger Kultur ?



-Jam

	03-05-2002 04:27									#22
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How about significantly increasing both the power and the cost of modern units?

Increased cost would reduce their numbers, and reduce the work of playing. Hopefully increased power would balance out the reduced numbers.

This does have several problems. As we all know, Civ3 made the design decision to keep outdated units competitive, so the power increase would have to be large. Also, as we well know from Armies, even though they are more powerful, fewer units get fewer attacks. Blitz would be standard.

Still, it might lessen the micro management that hurts late game so bad. Fewer units AND fewer times you have to manage a city after if finishes its build. Also, it is appealing since rl modern day armies seem to be going towards fewer numbers of more powerful, high tech units. And it is accomplishable with the editor, so no big programming.

Just a thought.

	03-05-2002 06:54									#23
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Some would argue that Windows doesn't need more of anything even remotely resembling an "era."

Last edited by Eroberer on 03-05-2002 at 07:54

	03-05-2002 07:49									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Since when did XP= Windows?

	03-05-2002 07:53									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well if you wanna get technical, it means "Windows XP," or in some contexts, "Office XP."

	03-05-2002 08:06									#26
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quote: Originally posted by War of Art Vielleicht bin ich dumm, aber warum wollte ich weniger Kultur ? -Jam

Ja bist du dumm. Niemand brauchen Kultur als man hat zwei tausend panzers.

	03-05-2002 09:03									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Eroberer Some would argue that Windows doesn't need more of anything even remotely resembling an "era."

Some would argue you're just an annoying spammer.

Namely, me.

	03-05-2002 09:10									#28
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quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Some would argue you're just an annoying spammer. Namely, me.

Wow I'm sure glad you cleared up some speculation I'd have to do with that second sentence. I wouldn't have known what to think if you hadn't typed that here into words and punctuation and stuff. Or, I mean, I guess I might have gotten the point a little bit if you'd just said it out loud or written it onto the screen with a pen, but definitly nothing less would've gotten it across.

	03-05-2002 09:45									#29
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Wow, a person who actually qualifies for my ignore list! Putting Eroberer on doubles it!

Neat avatar, zero content.

	03-05-2002 10:58									#30
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A better modern era would be good.