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quote:
Originally posted by ChaotikVisions
Because Sikander most(including me) are talking about what we hope to see in it/new features for it/etc... Just coming and posting saying that you hate the idea doesn't really have a purpose. If you don't like Civ3, don't play it. And do us a favor and don't post on the board frequented mostly by people who DO like it and tell us you don't. The only reason you can have for doing such is just to annoy us. |
So, anyone with dissenting opinions, or opinions that do not match yours are not welcome in this forum by you?
What's wrong with saying that you hate the idea that you'd have to pay for the XP?
What's wrong with saying that you expected most of the features announced in the XP to be in the initial release?
What's wrong with claiming you are generaly dissatisfied with the treatment Firaxis is giving the fans of this genre of games?
Do you ONLY want to hear from people with pleasant opinions, those more in accord with your own?
If you are annoyed at all of the negativity being thrown at Firaxis for this latest development..............TOO BAD!
I have just as much right to question/judge Firaxis as you do to be its 'fanboy'!
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ChaotikVisions
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Oklahoma, USA
Apr 2002
time: 23:13
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(answered in order)
I didn't say that, I said people who were just coming to this forum to say they hate Civ3 really have no purpose here. This isn't a forum dedicated to those who hate it, but those who like it(i'm assuming).
I didn't say anything was wrong with that, I was talking about people who just came on said they hate Civ3/XP idea, then nothing else. Arguing that paying for some features is alright, but its mostly wasted breath on here.
Nothings wrong with this, and I don't remember saying it was. But expecting specific things in a game is a good way to get dissapointed fast, better to wait and see, rather then hope and whine.
Nothing, I suppose. But your complaining to the people your complaining for. Try e-mailing Firaxis, you won't get any response but you'll save us some time.
No, not at all. Arguing things is whats done mostly on this forum anyway, I just got annoyed with people who aren't here to argue points, just to say it sucks.
I'm annoyed at all the negativity being thrown by useless posts of people who don't even play Civ3. And it isn't being thrown at Firaxis, its being thrown at us. Sure some from Firaxis come here, but how many come here do you think we're directly involved in whatever reason that person has for his useless spam?
So go question/judge them, e-mail away. But if your gonna argue on here at least do it with some sense, not just spam. And why exactly am I a 'fanboy' of Firaxis? Because I like the game? Because I get annoyed at spammy post about hating a game they quit playing? The same could be said for others here, but I don't think anyone considers themself a 'fanboy'.
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LaRusso
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appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Brutus66
Capitalism is based on the consumer's willingness to pay. That system worked great in the old days, but now - it seems to me, anyway- there is a lot of consumer irresponsibility. |
Well, you can always opt for communist state to be 'responsible' instead of you. People just had less money before, so less chance to splurge.
When you think about SUVs and 40in TVs and whatnot, measly 40 bucks for a game are not worth mentioning. Good God, a CD 'sung' by Celine Dion or some West Coast psycho (MM, for instance), costs 15 bucks, twice as much as any classical Cd, and offers you shite. I reckon the list is rather long and should have many more names listed before we ever come to the gaming industry.
As for civ abilities - it is unlikely that seafaring would be in, unless English get the ablity too (it really would not be fair to exclude them). One possibility is to have the same set of abilities with more overlaps and UUs as the only difference. If they add any new abilities, it could be hard to deduct anything from the list of XP civs, even if we knew them (I mean, who would say that Chinese are militaristic and industruous? )
As for the list of more abilities - beats me. Diplomatic? (Byzantines) - improved diplo standing, more chance of getting good deals, MPPs when needed, etc.
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ChaingKaiShek
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AZ, Federal Republic Of America
Oct 2000
time: 05:13
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quote:
Originally posted by bigfree1
So, anyone with dissenting opinions, or opinions that do not match yours are not welcome in this forum by you?
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Well actually, we tend to just like to have people who do not agree with us to be set up before the firing squad and executed  .
The reason praise is accepted over insult towards fraxis is because, sadly my friend the 'masses' are happy with Civ3. So every time someone throws a fit about how the evil company is going to stick it them by making them play for a feature that 'should have been with the game' - people tend to get a little annoyed.
As I said before, the company is only looking out for their PROFIT MARGIN. of course they DO like it if people actually DO like their product, or in this case, that most people like it. So the bickering of 10/20/50/100 people here isn't really that big of a deal compaired to the thousands who have purchased the game, and liked it. Or if they didn't like it they just threw it away and shut up 
Alot of software companies are the same way, buy a product which is missing features, then buy the missing features with an' UPDATE. (Win98/Win98SE) per say.
You have the right to throw all the fits you want, but dont expect everyone to go along with you quietly.
Chaing
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Brutus66
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Virginia
Nov 2001
time: 05:13
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quote:
People just had less money before, so less chance to splurge. |
I disagree. The fifties and sixties was a time when the average family had two cars and was able to take a real vacation at least once a year. My wife's father (just as an example) was a Hungarian immigrant who worked in Pittsbugh as a steelworker, but they were a two car family, at least one of which was new or late model, and were able to buy a decent home. And the husband and wife didn't both need to be employed to accomplish this.
But you're right about the price of music- I haven't bought a cd in more than five years. I refuse to pay that price. If everyone else did too, mere musicians wouldn't live like gods on Olympus and music would actually be affordable. The price of books is getting pretty high too, but I have to cave on that- life without books is not worth living. It's too bad, really- music and literature are the things that lift the human spirit.
My point was that companies like Firaxis and Infrogrames are going to try to get away with whatever the road will bear. If we let them stick us like this, and I am sure we will, then it's just going to get worse. Civ 4 will be even worse, and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.
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XarXo
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of the "I agree"
Jul 2000
time: 05:13
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Personally...
...preffer the Firaxis system. Why? Well, for example, in Warhammer III the graphic engine was amaizing the first time I saw screenshots from the game. Now this kind of 3D and texturization is common (Empire Earth, Black & White), and in a near future will be obsolete in front of games like Age of Empires III : Age of Mytology. With Civ 3 we have the basic game, AND with a patch is updated, with an XP is more diverse... Etc... This kind of things make a major involvment of the creators with the game, they create more things, they can see the effects in a major group of people (not freaky beta testers  ).
About the civs inside the expansion, PLEASE FIRAXIS!! CASTILLIANS, NOT "SPANISH"  . If we have English in the place of British, why now Spanish? 
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Farmer Jimbo
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I expected to come back to this thread today and find some comments from Firaxis guys. No? Somebody at Infogrames must have opened their mouth before they were supposed to then.
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loleod
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Boston
Apr 2002
time: 00:13
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I might not buy the XP simply because I dont have an interest in MP ability. I will probaly wait for others to buy it and post the pros and cons. I am very interested in an updated UN , new civs, new traits , and god willing new units  !!!!!!!I also dont have to much of an iterest in a better map editor for myself , but I hope they include it. Even though I dont edit maps I love to download maps made by other people, and a better editor will encourage more quantity and quality in maps.
As for the Civs we need a civ to fill up empty spots on a world map. that means another African civ. We seem to have the Zulus in the south and the Egytpians in the north so we are looking for a middle African empire. Australia doesnt have a very long history , but that section of the map is baron. We are also missing a civ from south america. Im not really up om my south american history , but that might mean either the Incas or the Mayans ( I forget which was based in south america if any  )
Im not an avid video gamer , but when I like a game I am willing to buy it , XPs and all. In the past two years I have bought 3 games. One was CIV3 , one was The Sims , and the other was Sim City Unlimited Unlimited. I have 3 XPs from The Sims, and if Sim City 3000 had XPs then I would have bought one from them to. Granted the basis is they want to make money , but the other basis behind it is they want to see what will work and what we want. Who knows maybe I wont want the XP , I might not want a map editor and MP and I might not like the civs. Why should I pay for that stuff in the original if I dont want it.
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Mikel
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Scotland
Apr 1999
time: 05:13
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Don't like the look of the expansion so far.
We are getting 8 new Civs ( wow 16 new animations... Woooohooooo!!!!!! )
and multiplayer ( I have always wanted multiplayer in a Civ game and now my dreams have come true)
Plus maybe some decent editing tools for the ModMonkeys (I won't need them to play the mods though will I?)
It just sems a bit lame compared to the additions other expansions have provided in recent years. Don't expect I'll buy it unless they put some fresh ideas in there (turnless mode? I'll wait and see), and some new features that will breathe some imagination into the game. I enjoy playing Civ3 anyway but they missed a chance here to take the genre to the next step ( I think thats what most people who are disappointed with the game wanted them to do, but their intention all along was to refine the original Civ 1 model).
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ajbera
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of the Cookieville Minimum Security Orphanarium
Apr 1999
time: 05:13
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If I may chime in...
I look at the value of these games by comparing what I spent on them to the amount of enjoyment I derive from them. I have to work 2 hours to earn the $50 needed to purchase Civ3 (although I actually received the game as a gift, I purchase most of my games so my analysis still stands.) For a pure time comparison, I have gotten far, far more than 2 hours enjoyment from Civ3 so far. I usually play a game on and off for about a week, play something else for a while, then come back to Civ when I want a slower-paced TBS game. So, on a time-spent-earning vs. time-spent-having-fun basis, it's definitely worthwhile. THe same goes for Civ2 and SMAC (hell, I even spent more time enjoying CtP than I did earning the cash for it.) Even if you only make $5 per hour, if you've derived more than 10 hours of fun from the game, it evens out.
Now, beyond the main single-player game, the Civ3 XP will give us scenarios (and hopefully greater abilities to make them) and multiplayer. If I've already spent numerous hours playing the main SP game, I'll spend even more playing scenarios and MP with my buddies (who can negotiate, attack and defend far more effectively, and thus entertainingly, than the AI.) So I will probably spend twice as much time with these new avenues of fun than I would with just the SP game (which I haven't come close to exhausting yet, either.) So even if I have to shell out an extra $50, I predict I will derive more than $100 worth of fun from Civ3 and the XP. Not just on a hourly level, but in terms of what kind of other fun I can have with $100. Hell, I spent $25 for a copy of Civ2 MGE, haven't even played MP yet, but got far more than my money's worth just by playing the main game and oodles of groovy scenarios (I intend on trying the new Moria scenario soon, so as you can see, I'm still playing it.)
Now, I understand that not everyone works, or has a lot of discretionary income. To this I say: 1) Wait for your birthday/Christmas/other gift-giving opportunity and ask someone for it; 2) Save your allowance or get a part-time job to raise the cash. I also was (and still am) miffed that Civ3 didn't have the MP and editing tools initially promised, but by following the above analysis, the fun I had is still well worth the money I paid. I also understand that Firaxis is a business, and their primary goal is to make money by producing an effective product. I found their product to be effective, so I will give them money. For those of you looking for a fun Civ game without the associated expense, there's always FreeCiv, or the other private, non-commercial projects available. Donate some time and effort and help get them made.
I'm not saying my perspective is the ONLY way things should be viewed, but it certainly works for me and may help some of you as well. Some of you may feel my analysis is crap - so be it. It's just my humble assessment of how to calculate cost vs. return. It doesn't assess broken promises (of which folks should be rightly ticked off), but simply evaluates an end product, and the satisfaction gotten from that product, versus the time/money/effort required to gain that product.
In my humble opinion, Firaxis has earned my money, both for Civ3 and the XP (assuming it does, indeed, contain scenarios and MP.) In fact, the Civ games have been among the best gaming investments I've ever made (although Half-Life still leads the pack in that regard.) If you feel you haven't gotten $50 worth of fun from Civ3, just don't buy the XP.
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metalhead
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Thank God someone else mentioned the Byzantines as an appropriate expansion Civ. I'm usually alone when arguing that one.
A good new ability would be Artistic, things like cathedrals and temples add an extra content face, entertainers more effective, techs like Music Theory and Free Artistry give the civ extra benefits, like maybe a mini-Golden Age (called something else, like a cultural renaissance or something) of 5 or 7 turns, or maybe they trigger an event where every non-Wonder city improvement eing built will be finished in 1 turn. This would diversify the tech race more as Artistic civs may be more likely to race for these techs, rather than immeidately go for Military Tradition, like I think the vast majority of players do.
The Seafaring trait mentioned earlier would also be a good one to add.
Of couse, it's little more than a daydream that anything I suggest will be put in the game, but input is never a bad thing!
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Spatzimaus
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
Seafaring sounds as a reasonable trait. Maybe reduced cost for harbors and +1 to sea movement. Could have a big impact on those Galley rushes over the seas. |
Remember that Harbors are already flagged "Militaristic", so civs with that trait are already paying half cost for them. Reducing the cost for that one building would be inferior to Militaristic, which is a trend they don't seem to want to do.
(In my game I split Harbor into Docks-Harbor-Shipyard, so reduced costs on all of those would actually be a reasonable thing)
SirSebastian, I know the difference between the three (Turks/Ottomans/Byzantines), but does the average player? If you ask the average person what year the Ottoman Empire ended in, how many will even guess within a century? (Answer: 1922, although the process really started in 1908). Remember, they've tried to make the civs stretch over 6000 years, so you're bound to have some incongruities (Gandhi leading the Indians?), and "Turks" is a much more recognizable name for the average person. Although, they'd probably end up using Ataturk as the leader, and that might get kinda redundant, so maybe Ottomans is better.
What I don't want to see is every ancient civ put in there; Crete, Thrace, Assyria, Phoenicia, Macedonia, and so on. They probably want to avoid too many modern ones, which leaves the middle ages. On the bright side, this means they can just steal UUs from Age of Empires 2 at will.
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bshirt
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I can't believe you people. Geeesh...."one" date with a hot mama will cost you "three" xps. At least.
Heck, even "one" night partying will cost you two or three xps, even doing it under control.
How cheap are you???
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barkwaffle
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South Jersey
Feb 2002
time: 00:13
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Expansion Pack has now revealed that it allows Sims characters to be entered into Civ. III. You can now take Hammurabi out on a hot date..... (whatever it takes to get those resources!)
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JtheJackal
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From what i have read is that people bought a buggy unfinished game back in October/November that isn't that great and isn't alot of fun with few features.
Could you please tell me the name of this game so i dont buy it in the future? I don't want to buy that game when I could be playing the awsome Civ 3.
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quote:
Originally posted by ChaotikVisions
(answered in order)
I'm annoyed at all the negativity being thrown by useless posts of people who don't even play Civ3. And it isn't being thrown at Firaxis, its being thrown at us. Sure some from Firaxis come here, but how many come here do you think we're directly involved in whatever reason that person has for his useless spam?
So go question/judge them, e-mail away. But if your gonna argue on here at least do it with some sense, not just spam. And why exactly am I a 'fanboy' of Firaxis? Because I like the game? Because I get annoyed at spammy post about hating a game they quit playing? The same could be said for others here, but I don't think anyone considers themself a 'fanboy'. |
I say you are a 'fanboy' because you call my legitimate concerns 'spam'!
You say to 'e-mail' Firaxis as though that is the only proper channel in which to display my grief, while you freely post here to display your enthusiasm. It goes right to my point that you think ONLY good things should be said about Firaxis here, give me a break.
Some people only want to vent their general frustrations at Firaxis and don't want to write a soliloquy to be read at Firaxis's office lunch parties. If they only want to say: "It Sucks!" , I feel they have a right to do so just as much as you do to say 'It's Great!' I won't begrudge your opinion other than to say you must have tolerance for other's opinion's and methods of communication.
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barkwaffle
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South Jersey
Feb 2002
time: 00:13
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Official eight new Civs revealed for Expansion Pack - - they are (not in specific order) - - 1) Crabby old women (religious) 2) Div. of Motor Vehicle Workers (anti-industrious) 3) Postal Employees (militaristic) 4) People Who Watch "Friends" (devastatingly boring) 5) The Simpsons (commercial) 6) Amazons (use your imagination) 7) Pre-Adolescents (warmongering) and 8) The Geeks (scientific)
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03-05-2002 11:30
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