02-05-2002 05:52									#1
	Money for Multiplayer [NO RANT] Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

firstly, don't rant about firaxis charging us for MP, because:

• i've been saying this would be how it happened
  
• it makes business sense
  
• ranting will only make mark or ming close the thread
  

now, let's talk rationally.

obviously people are upset. i've been saying for months now that MP should be a free patch for loyal civ fans, but it appears it's not going that way.

I'd like some input (again no flames or rants) about what people think this would cost. Dan should be able to answer this but is probably gagged not to. they wouldn;t charge us more than $30 would they? (i think it should be $20 tops but i'm thinking from a business perspective).

EDIT: and the irony here is exams started today, and i came to the boards to mockingly tell people to email me if MP was comming out. OH THE IRONY

	02-05-2002 05:55									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I demand this whine and cheese thread be CLOSED!

:d

	02-05-2002 05:58									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

As long as there are features other than multiplayer included (such as better editors, new civs, etc.), then I'd still pay for it. I just wouldn't use the MP feature.

	02-05-2002 05:58									#4
	Remove this text

1) if the people who wish they had mp in the original game could open their and scream their 6-month anger out, it would do everyone a great service. there is NO need to discuss again why and how MP was not included in the original game. thank you

2) expansions usually cost $30.

	02-05-2002 06:01									#5
	input Full PM-box? Change here!

dont think they could possibly charge more than 20-30$

It isn't going to be released very long after the original release of civ3, and i doubt it will be standalone (not requiring the original for it to work). if they DID charge between 30-50 ( i payed 45 canadian, and it was on sale ).. i wouldnt buy it... 100$ for something that should be single purchase is outrageous.

but yeah... anything more than 30$ would be overpriced.

	02-05-2002 06:01									#6
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from what i read it sounds like it's just 8 more civs and MP.

maybe the editor will be there too.

anyone care to talk about the "turnless" mode? sound RTS-esque?

	02-05-2002 06:04									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

also, i'd like to guess what 8 civs they added, so here's the UberKruX guessification:

Spanish
Mongols
Inca
Viking
Carthage

and i dont know any more i can think of offhand.

i would like an australian-based civ though, would be fun on a world map.

	02-05-2002 06:33									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by MarkG 1) if the people who wish they had mp in the original game could open their and scream their 6-month anger out, it would do everyone a great service. there is NO need to discuss again why and how MP was not included in the original game. thank you 2) expansions usually cost $30.

1. Tempt not thy brother to anger

2. I find some irony here, that Brian got ran off by Sid because he wanted to do a real time Civ3 and now we get, ta da, turnless mode multiplay.
This is shaping up as a really weak expansion in my opinion. Unless they have a ton of other stuff, its just a patch IMHO.

KruX, nice sig.

	02-05-2002 06:35									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

They said scenarios. But nothing about a scenario editor did they?

	02-05-2002 06:42									#10
	Got spare money?

Hopefully they make it as scenario-friendly as Civ II ToT. I want to see lots and lots of good scenarios being made by good modmakers.

	02-05-2002 06:54									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"They said scenarios. But nothing about a scenario editor did they?"

This is Civilization III: Conflicts in Civilization

We will have to wait until Civilization III: Fantastic Worlds for a full editor.

	02-05-2002 06:59									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I won't go multiplayer, only because my dial-up sucks, and the cable company told me to stuff it when I asked for a cable modem (They said anyone who is connected to the last pole can't get cable, which is BS).

With that said, Firaxis would have to do TWO things to get me to buy an MP XP.

1: Price. If's it's more then $20 count me out, no matter what goodies are in it.

2: Features. Just adding new civs won't cut it for me. A really kicken' editor with city/unit placements would be an excellent good start. Others, such as additional civ traits and a new tech tree. Perhaps a Furture tech tree after moden age, complete with Sci-Fi units such as Mechs or, heaven forbid ( ) Metal Gears.

2½: (and this is just a preference), don't just make this a "Only available to buy online". I prefer to buy it at the store, for some reason, it's more tangable and I can just turn it back if either A: Does not meet expections of #2, or B: The CD is corrupt or scratch or whatever.



As a side note, to keep the costs down, and the fact that's it's only an XP, which requires the full version of the game, why not just sell it as a CD in a jewel case? Maybe a 10 page insert booklet with an overview on some new features and of course, newbie install instructions.

Last edited by Thrawn05 on 02-05-2002 at 07:05

	02-05-2002 07:45									#13
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$27.98 @ wal-mart

	02-05-2002 07:50									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

If they are charging for MP XP, I don't care, because MP is not for me. What I don't like is the idea that rather than finish the editor in a patch, they will charge for that. The editor is woefully incomplete, as it does not yet allow civ placement, scenario-building, unit adding, civ adding, tech adding, etc. etc. ad infinitum. My hunch is, however, the patches are being released with just enough fixes to whet appetites for an XP that they will charge $30 for, MINIMUM.

Oh, and the Diablo II expansion pack was $40 retail. I refused to pay that and got it for $25 total from dragon.CA.

	02-05-2002 09:53									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by ACooper $27.98 @ wal-mart

shame on you, wally world prices end in 6.....27.96

	02-05-2002 14:15									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I wouldn't pay for MP alone but I am sure there will be enough other new stuff in the XP so I can buy it without second thought.

	02-05-2002 16:50									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'm no great fan of multi-player although I guess thats because the previous civ multiplayers aren't up to much. (IMO)

I'm getting tired of playing the AI and its little foibles. I'd like to have a proper game against 3 or 4 real players. PBEM would be ideal I think though I wonder how diplomacy etc would be acheived.

I say lets wait and see what they announce. If it looks like being a new game experience then I'll consider buying it, assuming the reviews etc make it sound worthwhile. I won't be queueing all night just to get it though.

£15-£20 would be reasonable I think.

Dave

	02-05-2002 17:50									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by ACooper $27.98 @ wal-mart

I keep getting lost in Wal-mart. I'll pay $29.99 at the software store. Considering I have had hundreds of fun hours playing the original version, the expansion price is quite reasonable.

I usually look forward to xp's.

	02-05-2002 18:17									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'm also sad that the editor won't be updated anymore. They've added nice stuff in the patch, but I want to add my own civs, buildings, and units without having to use unsupported software. Gramphos' multi-tool is great, I never used the hacked editor, but I think these aspects should have been in the game at the start. I also dislike having to rifle through every directory in the game to make sure my units, buildings, and civs have all the files in place. That should come with the editor. I hope they release the finished editor for free or as a $5 CD, especially since I care little about multiplayer. I don't want to pay any more.

I'm sad there's not going to be anymore patches. The game is fine, the editor needs more.

	02-05-2002 19:27									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If the XP only added MP and a couple of minor items and tweaks, it should definitely not be more than $19.95 (US).

It does seem, however, that with the addition of 8 new civs and MP, Firaxis has added quite a few goodies. Even so, I should think that, unless, the editor is fleshed out and finalized and made into a true scenario creator, it should still not be more than $24.95.

If indeed it adds the completed editor, MP, 8 new civs, gives us 2-4 new units (on top of UUs), maybe add a couple wonders/city improvements, and a couple of cool easter eggs, it would definitely be worth a good solid 30 bucks!

If indeed the XP includes most or all of these things, I'll be first in line to purchase it.

I truly hope Firaxis/Infogrames didn't go chintsy on the goodies in the XP (like they did the limited edition tin). That would be a HUGE disappointment.

If the XP is skimpy, but does include hotseat play, I'll wait until it gets down to below $20 to purchase it, but I'll still be purchasing (just later instead of sooner). My wife and I really, REALLY would like to play the game hotseat.

--Colonel

	02-05-2002 19:35									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 As a side note, to keep the costs down, and the fact that's it's only an XP, which requires the full version of the game, why not just sell it as a CD in a jewel case? Maybe a 10 page insert booklet with an overview on some new features and of course, newbie install instructions.

Yes! This would be perfect. Cheaper = better.

My $10 coupon for EB is waiting for the day XP comes out.

	02-05-2002 20:15									#22
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX anyone care to talk about the "turnless" mode? sound RTS-esque?

This caught my eye as well. Perhaps some variation on the simultaneous move that is an option for civ2 MP.

	02-05-2002 21:37									#23
	Put an end to popups!

quote: [SIZE=1] I'm sad there's not going to be anymore patches. The game is fine, the editor needs more.

Is this confirmed??? Who said this? WHy no more patches?

	03-05-2002 01:55									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Is this confirmed??? Who said this? WHy no more patches?

Sorry, that's my assumption. I would assume that there wouldn't be any more patches unless there are problems with the XP. The XP can also be considered a patch since it will probably add features to the editor and the game as well as fix some things. It'll be version 1.22 or whichever number it gets assigned.

I don't think there will be any more patches with things like improved stack movement or altered AI tech trading. Those will remain the same.

	03-05-2002 04:35									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by dunk999 Sorry, that's my assumption. I would assume that there wouldn't be any more patches unless there are problems with the XP. I don't think there will be any more patches with things like improved stack movement or altered AI tech trading. Those will remain the same.

Gold. The only possible exception will be a gold edition, i.e. the original full game AND the XP all in a box, with the last burst of patches.

It happened to SMAC+SMACX gold bundle, IIRC: the only way to play the original SMAC pack with the last (SMACX) level of patch.

	03-05-2002 07:45									#26
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quote: Originally posted by dunk999 Sorry, that's my assumption. I would assume that there wouldn't be any more patches unless there are problems with the XP. The XP can also be considered a patch since it will probably add features to the editor and the game as well as fix some things. It'll be version 1.22 or whichever number it gets assigned. I don't think there will be any more patches with things like improved stack movement or altered AI tech trading. Those will remain the same.

But why assume this? Have they given any hint or indication? I mean, the editor isn't half done yet. I'm not an anti-Firaxis whiner and have been defending them, but they could lose me here.

	03-05-2002 19:47									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov But why assume this? Have they given any hint or indication? I mean, the editor isn't half done yet. I'm not an anti-Firaxis whiner and have been defending them, but they could lose me here.

Because it's "game industry standard", my friend. They don't bother to manage two different lines of game and patches.

If the XP needs some major change in main file (e.g. *.bic), as I can suppose, then there is no point to keep two different source code, .dll libraries, et al. just to fix problems twice every time a bug is discovered both in basic and XP version.

They can tell you: "well, just buy the XP and apply the last (XP only) patch". I'm not ranting, just guessing on a history basis.

	03-05-2002 20:22									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov But why assume this? Have they given any hint or indication? I mean, the editor isn't half done yet. I'm not an anti-Firaxis whiner and have been defending them, but they could lose me here.

Well, I'm also assuming that they planned from the beginning to release a more powerful editor with the expansion pack. You don't need to change much to play the game out of the box, in fact, it's fine just out of the box (with the patches). I think the XP will have just about everything we've been wanting (scenarioes, ability to add and delete units, buildings, and civs [I really hope on this one], without crashing and with an easy interface to customize everything that goes along with that). I'm not whining either.

	04-05-2002 22:00									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have no problem paying $30 for an XP. Firaxis is out to make money like all companies, and as long as they continue to make great games I will support them. It's only fair.

Most people play single player, so putting MP in the expansion pack makes sense. Most game players are not moders, so putting full modding support in an XP also makes sense, although I agree it sucks. If I were Sid I would do it exactly the way he is (in terms of what is in the XP, that is).

	05-05-2002 00:49									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well I dont really like the idea of paying for MP, but if thats the only way to get it i will pay some $$. No more than $20 though. And I will definately wait until I hear that it is good from here and Civfanatics, not some gamespot reviewer that has played it for about 10 minutes.