02-05-2002 07:14									#1
	Turnless multiplayer mode: What does this mean to you? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Lets say I am in turnless MP mode and having oh, 20 cities and 100 units to manage what do I do. I have to use governor's and automate workers first of all.

Second, there is no way that I can move my units efficiently because Firaxis has yet to create true stack commands. So, you have to rush to try to manage....but

I am fairly certain that with all the delays (please wait) that we have in SP that the game will simply freeze up at times. So the agravation of being under pressure to move quickly and having to endure the dead time. Stress. Bad.

BTW, looks like PBEM/hotseat got left out in the cold. Damn Firaxis to hell if they do that.

	02-05-2002 08:17									#2
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It means that it must be your turn to troll right?

	02-05-2002 08:22									#3
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Hopefully it can work because the governors will be smarter.

	02-05-2002 08:24									#4
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I guess you can label anything I say as a troll Tubes.

	02-05-2002 08:37									#5
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick I guess you can label anything I say as a troll Tubes.

I guess that's true isn't it?

I don't know how they could possibly get it to work very easily. Or very well.

	02-05-2002 08:56									#6
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This means that they listened to us and the LIST in which we asked for such a feature, or one similar to the similtanous movement of Civ II.

	02-05-2002 08:56									#7
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Could it mean simultaneous execution?

With the ineptness of the flaks at Infogrames marketing department, it could be a completely non-existant feature. Extra tile to work when you build a harbour anyone?

I don't see a point in us all getting too far ahead of ourselves prior to getting some more reliable information from Firaxis.

The only thing I conclude from that info-bite is that there is an XP in the works, but then again I'd already deduced that from the Firaxians during the last chat.

	02-05-2002 10:00									#8
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I don't see a point in us all getting too far ahead of ourselves prior to getting some more reliable information from Firaxis.

Exactly. I am taking the wait-and-see stance, and wait and see what Firaxis themselves have to say on this development.

	02-05-2002 10:06									#9
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Didn't firaxis say something about a unique new multiplayer system before initial release? Who knows what "turnless mp" actually means.

I would tend to agree with NYE that it is probably simultaneous execution. It would seem to me (not that I actually know anything) that it would be far easier to implement that system than turning it into realtime.

I guess we'll know around May 21, if not earlier.

	02-05-2002 11:33									#10
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Does turnless just mean RTS, or something different? If it means RTS, why didn't they just say "RTS"?

	02-05-2002 12:12									#11
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quote: Originally posted by nato Does turnless just mean RTS, or something different? If it means RTS, why didn't they just say "RTS"?

That is the question

	02-05-2002 12:12									#12
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quote: looks like PBEM/hotseat got left out in the cold

how you manage to assume that from a less-than-2-lines description is beyond me

	02-05-2002 13:08									#13
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I don't see a point in us all getting too far ahead of ourselves prior to getting some more reliable information from Firaxis.

oh...just sit and wait, there'll be flame wars all over the forum pretty soon
like, why didn't they include this or that civ, firaxis going down the drain again, we wuz ripped for 20 USD (this outrageous comment comes usually from some american dude whose pocket money amounts to more than any eastern european salary).

once this flaming is over, there comes a 'this sucks, that sucks' phase in which virtually every point in game design is criticized, and firaxis are flamed for hardcoding anything at all.

	02-05-2002 13:14									#14
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So Markos, are you going to organise a chat with firaxians on this.

	02-05-2002 13:23									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Grrr So Markos, are you going to organise a chat with firaxians on this.

we'll see
my guess is that they wont be in "talking-mode" before E3(may 22-24) though....

	02-05-2002 13:35									#16
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Their no-comment mode in the last chat was promising enough. In the February chat they were in the i-don't-know mode. Personally I don't wait for this XP as anxiously as everybody else does. I will buy it though, when it comes out, no doubt on this. But I don't like speculations about what it contains. This might lead to certain expectations, which might (and probably will) be disappointed.

	02-05-2002 14:12									#17
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It just means that the guys at Gamespot didn't understand what was meant and/or the one who gave the interview didn't express himself clear enough.

I'm quite sure that there won't be RTS-like elements in Civ MP.

Maybe simultaneous turns like nye suggested.

	02-05-2002 16:04									#18
	Re: Turnless multiplayer mode: What does this mean to you? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Second, there is no way that I can move my units efficiently because Firaxis has yet to create true stack commands.

There will be improved stack commands. As far as the rest of your complaints, time will tell.

	02-05-2002 18:16									#19
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I think turnless probably means that units regain their expended movement points over time, and the years progress in certain time increments. Building would work the same way, with number of shields produced by a city applied in time increments rather than turn increments. Thus, the game is constantly progressing without the need for "turns". Kind of a marriage between turn based and real-time.

	02-05-2002 22:50									#20
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Personally I was fond of the MP in Civ2 and SMAC without any kind of simultaneous movement. I like to seriously micromanage my cities, and I thought the pacing of the game was excellent, when it was my turn, I was moving units, and when it was other players' turns, I was managing my empire.

The new "turnless" mode might be interesting, but I hope that they make it optional. The reason I play CIV instead of RTS games, is because I wish for the victories to go to the best decisions, not to the fastest actions.

	02-05-2002 23:22									#21
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Anyone ever try simul mode with civII? Y'all remember when that thing was discovered within the game, right?

My guess is that it will play like that.... but work.























maybe.

-FMK.

	03-05-2002 02:28									#22
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My guess is that turnless means you are stuck in 4000 BC throughout ther entire game.



However they do it somebody won't like it.

	03-05-2002 05:46									#23
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Well, as far as being able to manage 100+ cities with 300+ units in real-time... I've very skeptical. The only way I see this turnless stuff work is if they get 3/4 of the way to Civ IV in the process of making the XP.

	03-05-2002 05:51									#24
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG we'll see my guess is that they wont be in "talking-mode" before E3(may 22-24) though....

my guess is that they wont be in "talking-mode" until the apocalypse (sp?). no comment

	03-05-2002 05:54									#25
	Re: Turnless multiplayer mode: What does this mean to you? Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Lets say I am in turnless MP mode and having oh, 20 cities and 100 units to manage what do I do. I have to use governor's and automate workers first of all. Second, there is no way that I can move my units efficiently because Firaxis has yet to create true stack commands. So, you have to rush to try to manage....but I am fairly certain that with all the delays (please wait) that we have in SP that the game will simply freeze up at times. So the agravation of being under pressure to move quickly and having to endure the dead time. Stress. Bad. BTW, looks like PBEM/hotseat got left out in the cold. Damn Firaxis to hell if they do that.

Man you're dumb.

Edit: Upon reading your post, I retract the above statement. You're actually, in all probability, correct.

	04-05-2002 22:09									#26
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if there isnt hotseat i'm going to scream ...I rarely played civ2 mp with people, but I enjoyed playing scenarios as all the civs against myself...ok i'm weird but I plan to do the same with civ3

	04-05-2002 22:15									#27
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Could it be that the developers of civ3 are basing the turnless game on the assumption that most games will be short war games ,(like most RTS online games are, where you build quick armies and rush your opponent), which will eliminate civ's quickly and therefore eliminate the need to make a multiplayer turnless game that can handle more than only a few civs that are huge empires without significant delay?

hmmm...

	04-05-2002 23:49									#28
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quote: Originally posted by civman2000 if there isnt hotseat i'm going to scream ...I rarely played civ2 mp with people, but I enjoyed playing scenarios as all the civs against myself...ok i'm weird but I plan to do the same with civ3

but wouldnt you know your own sneak attacks? lol

	05-05-2002 00:11									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yes, but when the surprise works it's quite the coup.

	05-05-2002 05:28									#30
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Turnless MP.... Sounds like someone at Firaxis has been playing LucasArts' Rebellion.

I think it will be very similar. Everyone plays like a TBS, but the turns are X seconds long, then a new turn appears. Within each turn, you get to move your units and such, and have to wait a few seconds to move them again. If you don't do it within that amount of time, you basicly missed your chance to move it.

If there are AI's playing on the map, they will be better at it since they can do everything in one shot basicly.

I can just imagin' Diplomatic discussions. It's going to take you 2000 years to discuss trading world maps with the timer set up high!