01-05-2001 03:00									#1
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You have seen the screen shots, you have seen what the game looks like so far. You have heard the information on Civ3. What do you think of Civ3 as it stands right now? And how do you think it will turn out now that you have heard some crucial information about Civ3

	01-05-2001 03:09									#2
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So far in general I am excited about the game, though the fact that they limited the no. of civs per game to 7 was a major, major disapointment.

	01-05-2001 03:13									#3
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Okay, My opinion is that we have been talking about alot of negitives in Civ3 alot, so I hold a negitive feeling about the game. Although Im trying to hold the feeling that the game will be good no matter what and that Unique Units will work. And that the graphics are to soon to say they look like ****. But the game is just to young to tell as of yet...

	01-05-2001 03:31									#4
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All the basic difficult-to-change design-decisions that they have made has been perfectly OK, so far. Looking on the overal picture I must say they are definitely on the right track. Quality before quantity seems to be the leadstar.

If someone from Firaxis read this: Always listen to your fans, yes - but dont listen too uncritically. Follow your own instinkts and knowledge first and foremost. Draw conclusions from what happened to CTP/CTP-2.

Some easy-to-change issues can, and should be changed: I presume, that the terrain-graphics going to be updated several times before release: bright and crisp-sharp (antipode of TOT). I would also prefer several thin height-layers from deep ocean upwards, giving the landscape a sligthy more embossed look. I hope that Civ-3 is playable from a window with windowish, if not look - so at least feel. Civ-unique units are nice, but nothing further unless optional. As you can see; mostly minor issues so far.

	01-05-2001 05:41									#5
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I think the game is progressing along nicely, to be honest. Lots of negative, negative feedback on the board, but I'm not worried.

I like the idea of both specific civilization attributes and special units.

Special attributes for each civ, from my perspective, will just add to replayability. I'll have to try the challenge of winning the game as all 16 civs, which will all have subtle differences. Otherwise, the civs are just a name, with no real difference. If one has more of an advantage, it's just going to be more of a challenge. Alter gameplay to fit the civ. Of course, it would help if they were balanced variations so that everyone didn't all pick one particular civ.

If these aspects are already in, I hope they keep them; for those who don't want them, I hope they add a dialogue/option thing for the feature.

As far as the limit of seven civs, I have no problem with it so long as each one has it's own character. I loved the first civ in some ways more than the second.

Interacting directly with Napoleon and Gandhi was a lot more fun than some non descript vassal (I still remember Nappie's petulent look!), and if they (Sid, Jeff, et al) impart more of the leaders personality onto the leaders civ, so much the better.

I remember old ad copy for the first game that touted it as a match against the greatest leaders of history, so civ bonuses that reflect this are just fine in my book. Again, if they make it editable (or turn on/off) for those who are militantly opposed to the idea, I think everyone should be happy. If it can be turned off, what's to object to?

The sense of humour that went with Civ I was another aspect that wasn't as visible in Civ II. I like the idea of having Sid as an adviser, and loved the old mock newspapers and such.

Loved the old game replay, too, and that's being put back in. One of my favourite parts!

The map graphics look good but I'd say they're still in the evolutionary stage, so I'm not worried about the unfinished aspects they show (the trees appear as 3 incarnations in the screenshots, so obviously they're still working on this stuff). But my initial impression is that the game looks great. Better (in my view) than the more outrageous (flying businessmen at their desks and TV headed evangelists) graphics of CTP.

The units look amazing. Love the NRA like guy as the partisan. Again, I think Sid, Jeff Briggs and crew have a great sense of humour that fits in well. Like the aztec eagle warrior alot too, and the impi.

leaders, armies, great artists and explorers (hopefully) sound awesome; the resource system is simple from the sound of it but will dramatically change the game, adding greater depth. Wars will be fought over important areas of geography, rather than just cities (ie. Fights will be over Middle East oil reserves, etc), which is a fantastic addition.

The addition of some kind of council like UN is also encouraging; the expansion of the diplomacy will make it a much more interactive experience. Having more non military ways to win (like economic or diplomatic victories) will just expand the variety of ways to play. And culture! Man, it just keeps sounding better and better.

Curious about what I have heard of 'minor civs' but not sure if they are actually in or if I have miscontrued some earlier comment.

The mini wonders are also a great idea, and handles things like the manhatten project much more reasonably. And having the Great Wall actually on the map --- awesome! Unique geographic features at last in a civ game!

Also like the sound of the coastal batteries (firing at passing ships), bombardments, and I noticed on one of the screenshots of a city what appear to be anti-aircraft batteries. Fixed emplacement fortifications! Very cool.

I've played civ I and II so many times I cannot count them; I have no wish to just get a graphically improved Civ III; whatever changes they make or additions they add to enrich the experience are wholeheartedly welcome.

Well, that's a mouthful, but there's been a wealth of info. Looking forward to hearing more.

Phutnote

	01-05-2001 08:05									#6
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I would belive the game is on right track. I don't know but it still might not meet our expectations...according to the amount of ideas on these forums... but no doudt CIV3 is on the right track we have been seeing signs of improvement from the last two screenshots itself in the slight better graphics...or was it just due to the scan??

Still I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping it comes out for the better.


More than anything I would like to see massive improvements in the gameplay and besides that all the rest can go to hell for all I care.

	01-05-2001 08:27									#7
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Based on what I have read so far, here are my thoughts.

New trade system as explained: YES!!! This sounds like a very interesting way to make trade actually important to maintain!

Cultural influence in the game: YES!!! I very much look forward to seeing how this will make the game even more fun than Civilization II!

New resource exploitation system: Um - I don't know -- might make creating an army TOO difficult. Will you be able to produce and use units before they become obsolete with newer technology? Wait and see.

Only seven civilizations: Firaxis will have to realize they're making a mistake here! Only seven civilizations!? And even WORSE -- only 16 to choose from altogether!?

And because I got ripped off by buying Call to Power II as soon as it was available in my area, I learned my lesson. I'm going to learn from others in this forum what Civilization III is REALLY like before I purchase it.

------------------
"I should like to know if taking this old Declaration of Independence, which declares that all men are equal upon principle, making exceptions to it -- where will it stop? If one man says it does not mean a Negro, why does not another say it does not mean some other man?"
-- Abraham Lincoln's quote, and his anti-racist ideals

	01-05-2001 12:31									#8
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Everything sounds pretty good so far, except the fuzzy info we're getting on stacked combat and minor civs - I hope we'll get some more clarification on those soon.

	01-05-2001 13:25									#10
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Phutnote, I like the way how you described the game (from what we know so far). Like you, I think the game is progressing just fine, and I'm sure the final "product" will be great!

About the 7 civs question, for Firaxis quality was always the main goal and not quantity (at least I think so). But there is still so much we don't know about CivIII ... minor civs, stacked combat, corporations?

And by the way, they still have 6 months to improve the game! So I wouldn't worry about it

	01-05-2001 13:55									#11
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Good point fhutnote! CTP civs were pretty much bloodless abstractions. The idea of civ specific stuff doesn't bother me in principle because when I face off against the greeks, I want to face off against the Greeks. Yeah, yeah - if the Greeks had started off in the Mojave, they would be more like the Anasazi. This is the necessity of origin problem in philosophy. In some other possible world though, if the Greeks had a different origin (started in SW US or even on a contintent not in the real world) are they still really the same Greeks? Would Alexander the Great's parents have met in such a world? Surely Alexander's (biological) parents are necessary to his existence. So look on the bright side, sure the Vikings would not have been masters of the sea if they did not originate from Scandinavia, but if some group originated from some other place than Scandinavia, would they really be vikings?

So knock it off already

Then again, I'm not particularly partial to civ specific stuff either. I didn't think much of SMAC, but thats mostly because of the AI's use of ICS with sea cities. We'll just have to wait for the game.

As for the look, we'll it resembles CTP2 IMHO. But I liked the way CTP2 looked (I liked most of CTP2 - except the gameplay!). I hope the diplomacy model is actually 'plugged in'. Players of CTP2 may remember the complex diplomacy system there, which wasn't even used by the AI. Concepts sound good, game looks good. But the proof is always in the gameplay, so I'll wait 'til its out of the box and on my hard drive before I make any final or definitve judgements.

	01-05-2001 14:04									#12
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Folks So fari just LOVE civ3
yest a bit disappointing that you wont have 10 civs at once but not very bothering!:
!!KAKOGO DYAVOLA???
Why the h&%l should i have to remove-a-pop (sounds like an EXTREMELY annoying little ad, soesnt it?eg luck-a-duck) just to build some 20 tile improvements. I will get happier only if the workers can build into cities ANY size!
otherwize: