22-04-2001 16:20									#1
	4000 BC to 2020 AD, is that to short? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Civ III will probably be played from 4000 BC to 2020 AD. I think that's to short. It also means there won't be any future techs.
What do you guys think about this?

	22-04-2001 17:51									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I thought it would be a bit longer than that.


There are a few future technologies in the game, most of which are there cause someday we will have them... it adds a more realistic feature to the game and doesn't turn it into a sci-fi boggle like ctp1.

For me(I want historc accuracy to the game) I think its a good thing to do. Hopefully the game will be good enough so that we don't have a pile of fut. tech by the end of the game.

BTW any one thought of what they'll put in instead of the fut. tech? making it more usefull than they were in civ2 in terms of affecting the game??

	22-04-2001 18:31									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Its a very good thing that Firaxis decided to skip future techs & units in the main game.

On the other hand; it is also very likely that they will either bundle the main game or a scenario-pack, with some really nice futuristic scenarios, with all the future-style techs and units that you can possibly ask for. Everybody, incluiding SciFi-fans, wins by Firaxis decision to cut-out the SciFi-stuff from the main game.

Lets say the main game comes with 110+ techs and 75+ units. Thanks to the fact that they wisely decided to furnish only 4000 BC - 2020 AD; the main game will become much more enriched & ample. Also, any Sci-Fi scenario-creators can more easily start their work from a clean sheet, without having already existing main game SciFi-techs and units to worry about. There will pretty quickly be futuristic mod-packs available for download - available to every SciFi-scenario creator out there.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited April 22, 2001).]

	22-04-2001 20:27									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hopefully, they won't allow too many years to pass for each turn.

	23-04-2001 09:00									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

It's a great idea; I agree
It's also not new

People have suggested, yes future techs, prehistoric techs (ex. agriculture), and shorter turns. I myself suggested you start as a nomadic tribe (1 unit) that moves, does not keep explored knowledge, and has to research city-building.

	22-04-2001 23:15									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Going on the assumption that culture has significant importance in CivIII, I think that the future techs will give increased culture ratings, which would also increase score. I can't think of any other usefulness of future techs, but score and culture.

I also think that although the future tech/sci-fi should not be included in the main game that the game should have extra turns. Of course this could be done by just making 1750-1850 be 1-year turns instead of 2-year turns and similar type moves. The assigning of game years is arbitrary anyway, designed only to give a kind of epic feel and rel-world correlation to the game. It's the number of turns that actually matters, so why not bump that number up.

	23-04-2001 02:24									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

I seem to remember a long time ago when sid first decided to make civ 3. He was planning on making ac2 and civ3 and some game to put them together. It seems to me that leaving off at 2020 and not having a spaceship, he will then make his next game from 2020-whenever and make it finish with the lauch to alpha centauri. It could even be an expansion with maybe 200-300 more years that would be added to the end of Civ 3.

	23-04-2001 06:38									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I dont think Civ3 should go too far in the future. Maybe have one futuristic advance for Land/Sea/air and one tech advance for economics/mathematics/scicen but not anything more.

------------------
Its okay to smile; you're in America now

	23-04-2001 06:50									#12
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I think 4000 to 2020 is too short...

...But only if it uses Civ2 style time passage. I think there should be many more turns in Civ3, so I advocate a quarterly or even monthly system. More turns are needed, but 4000 and 2020 are good limits... so we just need more turns!

About future technologies: Been there, done that, it sucked

------------------
- Cyclotron7, "that supplementary resource fanatic"

	23-04-2001 18:54									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There could be an expansion set. I'm thinking of something like Civ ToT, that wasn't that bad after all. The graphics were bad, o.K., but I loved the idea of an extended original play.

	24-04-2001 10:32									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think that 4000 BC and 2020 are just fine for technology limits, I don't want to see space/ocean cities in CivIII.

I think that the changing of time should change based on you tech. As some people have done, launching the spaceship around 1000AD. Well once you've gotten railroad, it doesn't take 60 years (3turns@20years/turn) to build a railroad in 920AD. I wouldn't mind an adaptive year scale, with time taking as long as your tech would allow. Once you have Industrialization, turns are 2year/turn, Computers, 1year/turn. That kinda thing.

	24-04-2001 13:13									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Thats the idea. The years really don't mean anything to me other then give a baseline as to how long I've been playng (usually too long). It's just an idea, I really don't care either way, it doesn't effect the game.

Actually adding more turns (the length of the game, not the artificial years) would be a really nice feature, but then the game would require more depth, because I haven't played a game past 1950 in a few years. The same with SMAC, I rarely got past 2425. More stuff to do would be nice.

	24-04-2001 16:11									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I think the six thousand years will be plenty long _provided_ that the early and mid game isn't just blown off in a the game's rush to get to the modern age. In so many of my games absolutely nothing interesting happens until I get to gunpowder and it's really a shame. 20 or 50 years per turn in the beginning is just way too fast.

I agree with the "no space or sea colonies" sentiment. Fortifications at sea might be cool, but no colonies. Same goes for space-based weapons (nuclear and kinetic bombardment platforms) and defenses (ABM systems), as it's reasonable to think we could be using them in the next 20 years. Basically the stuff from SMAC; no colonies. Throw in items like communication satellites and weather satellites to provide happiness and food bonuses repsectively. Small improvements; SMAC satellites were , I think, a little to beneficial.

--
Jared Lessl

	26-04-2001 05:08									#22
	Got spare money?

I like the idea of more turns! The first 4000 years (or more..) I usually just build cities and wonders anyway (kinda boring). I think that every turn should have the same amount of years gone by (let's say 5 years), then we'll need more techs for the early years, or some sort of slower science in the beginning. I prefer to have as many turns as possible. Perhaps if you can choose how long you want to play, instead of small maps (quick game), you can choose more turns (long game/full game). When it comes to future tech, I think that techs like the human genome project, the human brain, national missile defence (not SDI), a trip to the Moon and Mars and other more likely techs that we might just see in the future. Both a trip to the moon and the human genome project has been done, so these should at least be implemented in the game. A trip to Alpha Centauri isn't very likely to happen in a while, so this should be taken away from civ3!

	27-04-2001 01:40									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I also think the game should be extended... but they should make those extensions in regard to time span covered by a turn rather than number of years the game lasts... for example, the middle ages were hardly touched in civ or civ2, not even mentioning call to power, were we had a direct connection between ancient times and renaissance...

I say let's have some 4000BC - 2500AD but more turns than in CIV2... and mor etechs and units between ancient and renaissance!! and between renaissance and modern times also!

	30-04-2001 02:07									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

Instead of having a hard-coded number of turns built into the game, why not include it in a file like CivII's "rules.txt"? All that is needed is a simple variable that would tell the game how many turns it takes to go from 4000BC to 2020AD.

If someone prefers short games, they could set this number to 500 or less, while someone who prefers long games could set it to 1000. Obviously there should be a set minimum and maximum, or this modification could make the game unplayable.

The calculation to determine how many years each turn takes should be fairly simple, but I don't have the energy to figure it out right now.

	30-04-2001 02:30									#27
	Put an end to popups!

Well, even in Civ2 you could carry on playing after 2020, so I am sure the same will be implemented in Civ 3. Therefore, I wouldn't worry about this issue.

	01-05-2001 02:18									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

Future units? Why the hell would I want that? I have SMAC for that, and I don't particulary care for it...

Increased number of turns is the option.

The thing is, Civ 2 used to decrease the number of turns drastically the higher was the difficulty. But that caused the ancient era and the middle ages to be forgotten.... If I had an Island start. I would have met other civs only around 100AD which isn't right!

more turns = more fun = more game play.

That's another reason why there is no way one couldn't conquer the world in diety. On a large map, you simply don't haave the time to build enough units... you have something like half the turns of warlord or something...

	01-05-2001 07:42									#30
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well from one of the screen shots, it shows a space ship blasting off, and from what i have heard there are no Wonder movies so you can be leaded to believe that it is either..

a) They have something where you blast off and go to the moon, showing the first people on the moon or...

b) It is the same ol going to Alpha Centauri, or at the end you go to mars. Hey this ways off the origanal topic of is the game to short, but its just my opinion thanks.