03-05-2002 22:54									#1
	OK, whats the CTP2 opinion abot the 'BIG NEWS' Increase Your PM Length

...about the civ3 Expansion Pack, that is!!!

More civs...so what!!!! A nice feature but not one to make me rush out and get it - same with the added UUs that those civs will have. More eye candy than anything.

Turnless multiplay...Hmm, sounds somewhat intriguing. My guess is that it allows all players to move their units and then at the end of the turn, the computer resolves everything. I don't think it means something like AOE or EE, in a purely RTS format.

Here's the biggie though - It's supposed to include some scenarios, which implies that the Editor may be in a workable state. After all, if Firaxis can place cities, units and so forth, they must be using a workable Editor to make that occur.

How workable though remains to be seen. Any guesses whether Modders can create scripted events? Based on Mikes quote (see Immortal Wombat's sig) that appears unlikely.

Overall...not too impressed by it - wait and see after the initial rush of fanatic players to buy and test.

Let's see if they can get a true stacking/grouping feature and eliminate some of the late game tedium issues.

Last edited by hexagonian on 04-05-2002 at 01:00

	03-05-2002 23:14									#2
	Re: OK, whats the CTP2 opinion abot the 'BIG NEWS' Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, I for one will buy it sooner or later. I like Civ3, and have been waiting for scenarios for the game. That however doesn't mean that I will abandon CTP2.

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian More civs...so what!!!!

I'm hoping that the Mongols will be included

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Turnless multiplay...Hmm, sounds somewhat intriguing.

I've never played a Civ game multiplayer. I don't have the time or the patience, but if this turnless multiplay feature pans out...then who knows?

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Here's the biggie though - It's supposed to include some scenarios, which implies that the Editor may be in a workable state.

I personally don't believe that the modding ability will be anywhere near as easy as CTP2, maybe a prettier package, but without the depth.

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Let's see if they can get a true stacking/grouping feature and eliminate some of the late game tedium issues.

Don't count on it. The Sid Civ games historically have had a 1on1 base combat system. Civ 3 tweaked that a little by allowing the creation of armies. The armies can only hold a max of 4 units (with Pentagon wonder) and stacked moving... well the Civ3 version sucks period.

	03-05-2002 23:41									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Its what I was expecting, a MP/scenario editor X-Pack, but I certainly won't be rushing out to the shops straight away, I'll wait for the first 3 X-Pack patches, and see what player reports are like.

re my sig Mike only said that for languages, and from what I gleaned in my thirty seconds of having his attention in the last Patch chat, he will endeavour as far as possible to make a non-scripted events technique just as good as SLIC. IMO, that is well nigh impossible, but we'll see. If it surpasses AoK's one by a significant amount, I may see about buying it.

But turnless multiplay sounds interesting. I found a RTS chess game online somewhere (search the Other Games forum for details) but that was mental. Pieces going everywhere, and strategy goes out the window...

	04-05-2002 00:51									#4
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I will buy it with no doubt, although I have no need to rush in the stores. I probably will have to buy it in Amazon, because Infogreed Germany won't sell an English XP here since the German version is out.

Hexagonian, I dare to disagree with you concerning the UU's. They add a nice individuality to each civ. They are short-living and hence not much imbalancing. Although it's not so far developed like the faction differences in SMAC, traits and UU's add more color (not eye-candy, graphics are unimportant) to the game. So, for instance, if you plan to attack Greece, you'd better don't do it in the ancient age (where the Greeks were really strong), because you'll face Hoplites. And so on. CtP2 would do well also to allow more differences between it's civs. What use do I have of so many civs if they are all the same, except for a name and a color? By the way, if you find it imbalancing, let's say for multiplayer: They can be turned off with one mouseclick.

	04-05-2002 01:05									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Hexagonian, I dare to disagree with you concerning the UU's. They add a nice individuality to each civ. They are short-living and hence not much imbalancing. Although it's not so far developed like the faction differences in SMAC, traits and UU's add more color (not eye-candy, graphics are unimportant) to the game.

No disagreement there in terms of their importance to adding in-game atmosphere and some additional elements of strategy, but I am hoping for some new features/concepts that are different than what they already have in place.

Still, it is a wait-and-see proposition as to what additional new concepts there will be...

	04-05-2002 01:59									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Turnless multiplayer! This worries me, call me old-fashioned but this just smells of click-fest! Strategy out the window in combat then.....hmmmm, i'll do like IW and wait to see how it pans out, plus a few patches and it might be intresting enough to think about. I guess anything we say/think at this point is pure conjecture..... maybe they will just re-release the origonal game with the latest patch and just shrug their shoulders when MP is mentioned(like the first time)
Civ3 is like Moo3 for me at the momment, untill i hear(from these forums) that they are both great games(and the kind of game i want to play) then my money stays in my pocket - no way i'm going to encourage a company that doesn't care squat about messing-up two of the best pc games ever produced(and most loyally followed).
To be honest i'm more than content with my 'broken' ol CTP2, good stuff is happening here and the game gets better. It's already got more civs than you can shake a stick at, MP that does work(in a wobbly way ), and lots of talented poeple who really care about it. That's good enough for me.

	04-05-2002 04:09									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor To be honest i'm more than content with my 'broken' ol CTP2, good stuff is happening here and the game gets better. It's already got more civs than you can shake a stick at, MP that does work(in a wobbly way ), and lots of talented poeple who really care about it. That's good enough for me.

Brings a tear to the eye Just being a putz...The CTP2 modders are doing great things.

	04-05-2002 04:26									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Apples and Oranges.

I like CTP2 for whatever reasons I do. I played around with Civ3 and it just wasnt for me. Dosn't matter what they do with it.

	04-05-2002 04:37									#9
	Put an end to popups!

Well i 'bought' Civ3 but i dont think ill be buying the XP, ive had some enjoyment from civ3 but i like to multiplay (when i have the time) and well the single player experience is over for me. Thats why i still play ctp2, cause all these guys here keep changing the game, sometimes radically, but always for the better, IMHO ie cradle/frenzy mod

I just wonder what this new release will spell for the ctp2 forums? I noticed a few more people converting over the last 2 months or so, will this slow down or even reverse, and draw them all back to the civ3 general area thingy whatever. Any thoughts?

	04-05-2002 04:41									#10
	Got spare money?

Ahem, i forgot that maybe the XP will include a multiplayer mode and i forgot to mention that it sounds a little dodgy to say the least

quote: I found a RTS chess game online somewhere (search the Other Games forum for details) but that was mental. Pieces going everywhere, and strategy goes out the window...

	04-05-2002 09:36									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

Well, civ3 was a complete and absolute dud for me. It lasted all of 8 hours on hard drive and is currently gathering dust on my shelf. I am totally underwhelmed by the add on pack. To be even vaguely interested I want to see grouped combat and military units with zones of control. I also want a decent trade system to be introduced. While strategic resources are OK they are NOT a substitute for a general trade module.

	06-05-2002 03:02									#12
	Tired of ads?

A - I'm still going to have to move 200 workers per turn. How's THAT going to work well in turnless multiplay???

B - In this day 'n age, to make gamers buy the game, then buy a multiplayer XP is criminal in my book.

	06-05-2002 21:14									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'll probably buy Civ 3 when it reaches the "Gold Edition", which should be 2 more expansion packs from now

By then it should be a "complete game".

	06-05-2002 21:17									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well,I bought Civ 3 and was distinctly unimpressed.Because of there being no stacking system moving around every single unit every turn the game quickly became boring and I have only played Civ 3 half-heartedly ever since.So no,I will not be buying the expansion pack.CTP 2 and all the mod games are good enough enough for me

	06-05-2002 21:33									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The only reason why I'm even remotely interested in this expansion pack to see if/how much the Expansion Pack Civs poll I used to run affected Firaxis's choice of civs. Other than that, Firaxis lost me a long time ago (to be precise, almost a year ago when a certain J. Morris spoke of a "conservative sequel")...


BTW, as a Staff Member I really ought to have this thread moved to the Civ3 Forums. Oh wait, my nose is bleeding...

	07-05-2002 02:55									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

So, an expansion pack for Civ3. Ho, hum. It'll still be too much like Civ2 to interest me.

I think a more ominous event on the horizon is the forthcoming release, next Spring, of Rise of Nations. Even though it's yucky RTS - I don't think I've ever played an RTS game that's kept me interested for more than a week or two - it's got lots of interesting ideas and will be extremely modifiable. Moreover, it will undoubtedly be supported by BHG and, lets face it, how many of the modders on this forum wouldn't mind getting advice on game design and programming from the likes of Brian Reynolds, Jason Coleman, and/or Tim Train.

	07-05-2002 03:57									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

*does the scripting language dance*

	07-05-2002 14:22									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Anybody tried nabbing the units yet for ctp2.

I tried to take the Chinook but the rotor blades move so slowly I just had visions of it falling from the sky and burning in a big fire ball.

Cruse missile works good

	07-05-2002 14:54									#20
	Got spare money?

make them spin faster then. Its a couple of line changes in the sprite script file.

	07-05-2002 15:03									#21
	Suffering from ads?

where

	07-05-2002 21:15									#22
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Apolyton: Has the whole CTP1/2 story taught you anything? Do you think these games helped the genre or not? Jeff Morris: They helped us understand the impact of major changes to this system. New features must seamlessly integrate with the existing system, and that's tough the more radical the change. At first I wasn't a fan of a conservative sequel, though I'm a complete convert now.

So it looks that Firaxis learned the wrong leasson from CTP1/2 story. Avoid radical changes wasn't the problem. In fact most of them improved the genre a lot, like PW, message box/ side messages. These two features make the game playable even with a high number of cities, that is still missing in Civ3.

The real lesson of CTP1/2 was, finish a game before you release it. To be honest the description about PW for example in the manual wasn't complete.

-Martin

	08-05-2002 00:42									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: where

In the gu**.txt file, you should have an ANIM block for each of movement/attack/death:

code:

ANIM	1
	{
		ANIM_TYPE		1
		ANIM_NUM_FRAMES		5
		ANIM_PLAYBACK_TIME	1000
		ANIM_DELAY		10000
		ANIM_FRAME_DATA
			0  0  0  0  0

		ANIM_MOVE_DELTAS	0  0  0  0  0  
		ANIM_TRANSPARENCIES	0  0  0  0  0 
	}

	08-05-2002 14:15									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Wombat is that the one with


##this bit don’t work yet

written at the side

tried it but the blades don’t seam to move faster

	08-05-2002 17:53									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

could be. In which case, try adding more frames, duplicate of the existing ones, which mean they will all have to be played in the same alloted time, thereby speeding up the process of each.

	08-05-2002 21:23									#26
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Have you guys checked out some of the new features of the Civ3 XP, that were just posted at Poly Civ3? It will supposedly have full scenario creation support, but we'll see. Implementation of newly created units still seems sketchy. IMHO they appear to be presenting a fairly nice package that includes stacked units. We'll see if the stacking matches up to CTP.

	08-05-2002 21:40									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Here's a link for those interested

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...?threadid=49633

Last edited by centrifuge on 08-05-2002 at 21:50

	09-05-2002 04:25									#28
	Support Apolyton

From the looks of it, what they're offering in the XP (and probably will charge another $80 Australian (AUD) for after paying $110 AUD for the beta) came ready to go in CTP2 (which I only paid $80 AUD for in the week of release). Seems a bit stiff to have to pay $190 for Civ3 for what I got for $80 in CTP2.

Oh, and I'm STILL going to have to move 200 workers per turn!

Just my opinion anyways.

	09-05-2002 06:12									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I just came across this on Steve Moorcroft's site (Game AI) and since this this seems to be our local OT thread thought some of you might find it amusing:

quote: If the only reason you drink is to wash down caffeine pills.... you might be a Game Developer. (04/21/02) Courtesy of AJ Lott, Visual Designs Software If your computer science professor interrupts you with "besides games" when they see that hopeful look of yours...you might be a (potential) Game Developer. (04/21/02) Courtesy of Solstice If you always start counting from zero...you might be a Game Developer. (04/21/02) Courtesy of Joe Seeley If a beautiful girl tells you she's done some modelling work in the past, and you ask her what 3D package she used...you might be a Game Developer. (04/11/02) Courtesy of Harm Cuppens... If the words "open source" get you more excited than the words "free porn"...you might be a Game Developer. (04/03/02) Courtesy of videogameaholic...

As for the Civ3 XP, they still haven't exposed the AI and there's no indication that they have any plans to do so.

	09-05-2002 14:19									#30
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I wonder if they are going to release any future units. Could be good for the empire
Like they did in test of time.