05-05-2002 04:53									#31
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I never said that Bush Sr. was stupid, there was a included. However the statements holds a bit of truth. It's easier to tink of a person as smart if you agree with him. Human nature I suppose.

	05-05-2002 13:02									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: As we all know the definition of being smart as a president is to share Imrans ideas. If you think the elder Bush was stupid, then you really have to put your partisanship at the door. In terms of being qualified for the job, there is proabably no one in our history since the 1850s who was more qualified for the position.

Does the family getting rich on Nazi money count as a positive qualification? It was smart, though not entirely ethical.

	05-05-2002 13:07									#33
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Ah Mr Teflon finally start to slip.

And they said this wasn't going to be another Vietnam

He better invade Iraq quick before his ratings slip further

Btw, has he found OBl yet?

	05-05-2002 13:35									#34
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quote: Does the family getting rich on Nazi money count as a positive qualification? It was smart, though not entirely ethical

Who said ethical? He was Director of the CIA, after all.

	05-05-2002 14:57									#35
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regardless of IQ jr. seems to do better with the same "plan" as Sr.. Sr. Didn't manage to gain popular support and a new period in the white house through a war. Jr. is clearcly doing better with that but that's probably due to the circumstances. We'll have to wait and see if a future campain in Iraq will be Jr:s Waterloo...

	05-05-2002 14:59									#36
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You forget that GB senior was immensely popular after the Gulf War. Still plenty of time for junior to sink to new lows and miss a second term

	05-05-2002 15:36									#37
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Oh yes I know, but not popular enough or for a long enough time. I've got the impression that the support is bigger this time around but that's of cource just my point of view and hardly worth much.

	05-05-2002 15:41									#38
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Bush senior's support was up around the 70's and 80's, only eclipsed by his son.

	05-05-2002 16:17									#39
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If the US economy stays slack then Bush will have a hard time being relected. The US elections are rarely dependent on how the President deals with foreign issues. If the economy hadn't dipped the last year of the Clinton administration it would be Gore dealing with this mess.

	05-05-2002 16:27									#40
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In the UK "Right" parties win during recession and "Left" parties win during economic boom.

The state of the economy is important, but if people feel affluent they are more likely to vote left, if they feel financially insecure they will be more likely to vote right. This is of course speculation based on UK election results for the past 50 years.

	05-05-2002 16:47									#41
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In Canada "right" parties cause recessions...

	05-05-2002 17:03									#42
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Ethelred have an important point there. I do think I remember some article about the correlation of GDP growth and election results in the US. Hardly the best issue to use that kind of analysis on but the point was quite clear.

	05-05-2002 18:10									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin (somewhat seriously, I don't have anything to say about Bush Sr. but Jr. hardly seems to have all the eggs in the basket)

Based on what?

	05-05-2002 18:41									#44
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None of us can for sure know the intelligence of Jr. as we don't have personal and daily contact with the bloke. But most I've heard him say and the way he says it doesn't make me think of him as a intelligent man. He has yet to make or say something that can me change my mind.

	05-05-2002 18:44									#45
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Sprayber, have you looked at the guy?

He's quite likeable but he looks dumb as all f*ck. Sometimes he looks competely lost and confused. Haven't you seen that look?

I mean the guy reads speeches as if he doesn't understand them but thinks they sound good and he's wondering who wrote it and what it means. He actually pauses to savor the speech.

Need I go on?

He looks like he'd be a good guy to have a drink with but you don't make barflys President.

	05-05-2002 18:48									#46
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quote: He actually pauses to savor the speech

I think that's supposed to be his "thoughtful" look.

He really doesn't project an air of intelligence, even as much as his father or Clinton did...

	05-05-2002 18:50									#47
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AH, we must remember that we're questioning the leader of the free world here. Imran and others can call every damn president in the US history for 'the smartest man of his time' and the rest of the bunch will nod. Saying that one of 'em might be stupid is of cource heresy!

	05-05-2002 19:19									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin AH, we must remember that we're questioning the leader of the free world here. Imran and others can call every damn president in the US history for 'the smartest man of his time' and the rest of the bunch will nod. Saying that one of 'em might be stupid is of cource heresy!

Actually you would be wrong. Not all American Presidents were smart and not all Americans would say that they are. But I do question the appraisals of Bush JR. simply because of they way he does his speeches. He isn't the best speaker in the world. But just because he isn't a great orator, like Clinton, doesn
t mean he is stupid. He gave a speech to family members of some of the killed Americans recently. You know what. It wasn't the Getteysburg address and it wasn't a great oratation, he simply talked to them like they were people and like he actually cared that they loved ones had died. Maybe you all prefer carefully crafted speeches that sound really really good, but I perfer a guy that sounds like he actully cares.

And AH, lets see a picture of you. then we can determine just how smart you are.

	05-05-2002 19:41									#49
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Sprayber 1) notice that some said in this thread might be sarcasms. 2) I don't think he's smart or not due to his speech-writers. If you do and think he actually cares that's up to you. It doesn't change what I think of the mans intelligence a bit.

	05-05-2002 19:55									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Sprayber 1) notice that some said in this thread might be sarcasms. 2) I don't think he's smart or not due to his speech-writers. If you do and think he actually cares that's up to you. It doesn't change what I think of the mans intelligence a bit.

Some of what is said is sarcasm. But a lot of the people here I believe think that way because everyone else says it's true or just because he stumbles on his words. All I'm saying is don't judge the man by the way he makes public speeches. Not everyone can be great orators and not every great orator is by defualt a great man.

And I still want to see a picture of AH to see how smart he really is.

	05-05-2002 20:06									#51
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Let me clairify one thing. I'm not dubya's biggest supporter. If there would have been someone else in the race besides Gore and Nadar, I would not have voted for him. But to sit and insult the man because of his clumsy speech is not giving him a chance. I thought liberals were supposed to be open minded. I guess it goes back to being open minded about people that agree with them.

Complain about his policies all you want. There is a lot of room for real criticizims for that.


Now Perot, He was a nut j/k

	05-05-2002 20:17									#52
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Oh well it's not how he says it but what he says that makes me think of him at somewhat stupid. His history don't really help either but maybe that's not fair considering that can easily be the result of the discource of those that have written about it.

	05-05-2002 20:22									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Electoral College, I suggest you read up on it . And the newspapers... say Bush won Florida.

What the newspapers (who were biased against Gore anyway) didn't emphasize in the report was this:

In any statewide recount of the votes in Florida, Gore would have won. Even under the strictest of standards, Gore beat Bush by 2 votes.

However, Bush only won under the selective recount method.

And it was Gore's stupid team that wanted the selective recount, yes. But the fact still remains that Gore got the most votes in Florida and should have been declared the winner.

I won't go into the fraudulent absentee military ballots for Bush. But there were a lot of them.

Voter fraud is equally practiced by both major parties, and any one that doesn't do it is stupid because it's handing votes to your opponent. It's yet another reason why the system is broken.

	05-05-2002 21:13									#54
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noone ever noticed my joke

	05-05-2002 21:19									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov What the newspapers (who were biased against Gore anyway) didn't emphasize in the report was this: In any statewide recount of the votes in Florida, Gore would have won. Even under the strictest of standards, Gore beat Bush by 2 votes. However, Bush only won under the selective recount method. And it was Gore's stupid team that wanted the selective recount, yes. But the fact still remains that Gore got the most votes in Florida and should have been declared the winner. I won't go into the fraudulent absentee military ballots for Bush. But there were a lot of them. Voter fraud is equally practiced by both major parties, and any one that doesn't do it is stupid because it's handing votes to your opponent. It's yet another reason why the system is broken.

There is no question Gore got more votes, but the question is who got more legal votes. Under the recont Gore wanted he would have lost. Elections are a legal process, and you need to follow the proper procedure in order for your vote to count.

	05-05-2002 21:28									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi There is no question Gore got more votes, but the question is who got more legal votes. Under the recont Gore wanted he would have lost. Elections are a legal process, and you need to follow the proper procedure in order for your vote to count.

Nope, you didn't read it...Under every statewide recount of LEGAL votes, using the strictest standards, Gore won. It was only due to the selective nature of the recounts (certain counties over others) and the Supreme Court's unconstitutional stopping of the recount that handed it to Bush.

Following proper procedures, Gore would have won.

	05-05-2002 21:46									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov However, Bush only won under the selective recount method.

That was the method that Gore wanted, Boris. You can not blame Bush for that.

BTW, it was the fact that Gore was unable to win his home state that cost him the election.

	05-05-2002 21:52									#58
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And Bush wanted the statewide, so who is to say whose should be better?

Actually, Bush wanted no recount so he could procede directly to coronation...

Gore's losing TN was embarrasing, but not what lost it for him. He won, but Florida was robbed from him by Scalia and Co.

Besides, TN is a solidly Republican state, Gore's loss wasn't unimaginable. There hasn't been a statewide democrat elected in TN since 1988, and that Democrat was Gore. Given that Gore's opponent was a popular Southern governor, I think Gore's loss of the state is pretty understandable.

	05-05-2002 22:20									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov And Bush wanted the statewide, so who is to say whose should be better?

I can definately say that Bush had better advisors given the available evidence.

quote: Actually, Bush wanted no recount so he could procede directly to coronation...

Given the fact that he already had the result he wanted, can you blame him? Do you truely think that Gore would have been any different had the situations been reversed?

quote: Given that Gore's opponent was a popular Southern governor, I think Gore's loss of the state is pretty understandable.

His lose of the state was due two factors, IMO, 1) he fact that he ran a slipshod campaign there and 2) He lost touch with the residents of his own state.

He might have won TN had he actually fought for it.