04-05-2002 22:15									#31
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS First you have the bill, then you have to add some percentage (dependent on whatever state you're in!) to get to the total because for some moronic reason they can't figure out how to include tax into the bill in the US...

You've really been to some low rent resturaunts because that has never happned to me before.

	04-05-2002 22:21									#32
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There's a stereotype here in NYC that if anyone gives less than a 20% tip that it must be a tourist. This is, as far as I have seen, a bunch of crap, because the New Yorkers (particularly the wealthy upper west siders) are cheapskate tippers. Tourists, if anything, tend to overtip so as not to look like rubes.

Orange, tell your friend to f*ck off! My roommate is a waiter at an "upscale diner" and says change is perfectly fine, as money is money. If you were at Chez Derriere and the bill was $100 or something, yeah maybe.

Oh and to all those "just pay them a better wage" folks, Wait persons make far more money on the tip system than they would on the wage scale, if just because they can avoid paying as much taxes.

Likewise, if they did this, it would just jack up the cost of the food. Then we who thrive on take-out would get screwed, since we don't have to tip anyway!!!

	04-05-2002 23:06									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I think tipping is a silly idea. There seems to be quite a vicious tipping culture in the US and if you don't tip, consider your nation to be up their with Iraq for the next invasion I just find it awkward, I like to know how much the meal costs and pay that amount, not be expected to fork out some undisclosed sum which more often than not, I cannot afford.

The idea is, you tip based on how good your service was. It's supposed to encourage waiters and waitresses to be courteous and pleasant. That way if a waitress comes up to you, acting like a b itch, rolling her eyes when you change your order, etc., you can tip her less than the person who is nice and pleasant and helps you to have a good time while you're eating.

Besides, if they didn't get tips your meal would cost more as most waiters and waitresses make below minimum wage + tips. They'd have to make at least minimum wage (more likely more) to make up for the no tipping factor.

	04-05-2002 23:10									#34
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Orange Johnson is right!

Tipping does give the patron some measure of guarantee for quality of service. I've had some crappy, sullen awful waiters before. I show my displeasure by leaving them a bad tip. Not just a low tip, and not just NO tip...I'm talking like a nickel. I think that gets the message across.

If the cost of tipping we're added into the cost of the meal, what recourse would I have but to waste a lot of time and energy complaining to the manager, when i can say all I need to say with that lovely, shiny nickel?

Edit--I'm so happy with my new Avatar, aren't you?

	04-05-2002 23:16									#35
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS Your country is f*cked up in this regard. First you have the bill, then you have to add some percentage (dependent on whatever state you're in!) to get to the total because for some moronic reason they can't figure out how to include tax into the bill in the US...

You prefer taxes to be hidden? So then many people wouldn't even know they were paying them. Great idea. Maybe we should do away with that concept of representation also.

	04-05-2002 23:22									#36
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That sounds about right orange. Why should restaurant staff be paid lousy wages, and then managers pass on the responsibility of their livelihood to their customers.

	04-05-2002 23:31									#37
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You prefer taxes to be hidden? So then many people wouldn't even know they were paying them. Great idea. Maybe we should do away with that concept of representation also.

If taxes were labelled on petrol pumps, the public would be shocked. "How much ****ing tax!?!?!?!?" would roar out at petrol stations across the country.

	05-05-2002 00:04									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison That sounds about right orange. Why should restaurant staff be paid lousy wages, and then managers pass on the responsibility of their livelihood to their customers.

I think it's a good system...

...why should piss poor *******s be paid the same as nice friendly people in a job that's 90% human interaction.

	05-05-2002 00:10									#39
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I'm starting to warm to the idea of tipping, but I don't like the sort of "moral" obligation I felt under on my last trip to the States to pay a particular amount. You should pay varying amounts according to the service you receive; it encourages the practice of good service.

Of course, this theory falls apart the second you get a customer who gives lousy tips regardless, due to the fact that they're a ****er

	05-05-2002 00:14									#40
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Commission sales...

	05-05-2002 00:22									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Paul Hanson I'm starting to warm to the idea of tipping, but I don't like the sort of "moral" obligation I felt under on my last trip to the States to pay a particular amount. You should pay varying amounts according to the service you receive; it encourages the practice of good service. Of course, this theory falls apart the second you get a customer who gives lousy tips regardless, due to the fact that they're a ****er

Well, 15% is sometimes 'standard' in restaraunts (more expensive ones) and it's sort of you can go up from that if you feel like the person serving you was worth it.

But generally at a diner or even a pub or restaraunt, it's completely up to you. 15% is considered a standard tip. You have $10 worth of food, you leave a buck 50.

For delivery the same applies, but if I'm ordering in for just myself, I usually give a good bit more than 15%, as 15% of $5.50 isn't even a dollar...so I'll usually give a buck and change, or even $2, depending on how fast the service was.

	05-05-2002 00:46									#42
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My friends and I frequent a diner in my home town where we leave tips ranging between 40-100 percent. The waitress loves it because most of the kids who eat there skimp on the tips and either leave nothing, or practically nothing. So whenever we show up, she makes sure to get us our food faster than anybody else, and to refill our drinks really fast.

	05-05-2002 00:52									#43
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Some of you Americans just seem to have more money than sense, but then again, bear in mind that it is proportionally a lot cheaper to eat out in the US, which would probably account for our greater level of stinginess regarding tips.

	05-05-2002 03:01									#44
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We have more money than sense because socialist governments aren't looting our paychecks (well, not as much), and not stifling innovation with excessive taxes.

How does that rate on the troll scale? I think the timing was okay, so I shouldn't get a terrible score even if the argument is rather overused.

	05-05-2002 05:36									#45
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Most of the time I don't have an opinion on the service - as long as it gets to the table within a reasonable time (and if it doesn't, it's probably not the waiter's fault), and the waiter hasn't shat in it, then I really don't care.

Why should I be expected to implicity grade how well a tray-monkey carries food back and forth?

	05-05-2002 05:59									#46
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I believe the British "standard" is 10% - but as PH says, I think food here is generally more expensive.

	05-05-2002 05:59									#47
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I waitressed during my high school years 15/16 and change never bothered me...they say leaving one penny as a tip means you did a really crappy job but I never recieved a tip like that. Iwas a good waitress, friendly quick and efficient..it is hard work to be a waiter or waitress you are always on your feet, always running back and forth from table to kitchen and table to table..so a 5 dollar tip always made things seem worth while for my effort, because we had to be jolly even though we had a bad day, a headache, a foot ache and it was always nice to know that I was appreciated for my hard work.... and i couldn't stand when I waited head and foot on a table and then was stiffed on the check because we only made 2.15 hourly and the rest of our money was made on tips!!!

	05-05-2002 06:18									#48
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One of my rich-ass friend is an ******* in this particular matter: tipping. I leave the standard 15%, and he gets pissed at me regardless of whether or not the service was worthwhile or not. Even when we all decided that the waitresss was a complete *****, my friend decided that it was his duty to make up for my sub-standard tip.

	05-05-2002 06:18									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Felch X We have more money than sense because socialist governments aren't looting our paychecks (well, not as much), and not stifling innovation with excessive taxes. How does that rate on the troll scale? I think the timing was okay, so I shouldn't get a terrible score even if the argument is rather overused.

2.5/10

	05-05-2002 06:20									#50
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I won't tip a bad waiter/waitress only because I know how it should be done..with as much bull crap as I put up with to earn my tip iI only feel it is fair to tip on performance not percentage

	05-05-2002 08:30									#51
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Thanks Orange, but rating trolls is a Euro-only thing. Even if you are a Eurocom at heart, I'll still have to wait for a bona fide European to rate it.

	05-05-2002 08:37									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Felch X Thanks Orange, but rating trolls is a Euro-only thing. Even if you are a Eurocom at heart, I'll still have to wait for a bona fide European to rate it.

That's discrimination!

	05-05-2002 08:47									#53
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quote: Originally posted by orange For delivery the same applies, but if I'm ordering in for just myself, I usually give a good bit more than 15%, as 15% of $5.50 isn't even a dollar...so I'll usually give a buck and change, or even $2, depending on how fast the service was.

Orange, are you on CRACK? 15% for a delivery person? No way. 10% max. They didn't have to come and refill my water, make sure everything's ok, get me new napkins, bus my table, etc. They just showed up at my door with food. No way I give them as much as a waitperson.

I give bartender's $1 tip per drink I order. Seems to be standard.

	05-05-2002 09:33									#54
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Why would anyone be offended by receiving a tip? Amazing what misplaced pride will do...

If in a country where tipping isn't customary, I make sure to tip generously. Anybody who is worth rewarding will take it the right way.

I try to tip based on a combination of the quality of service and how long I have stayed at the table. This seems fair.

	05-05-2002 09:43									#55
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I have yet to convince a delivery person to bring it to my room.

My college is small (2400) and I know they can find their way around a 3-story dorm. So until they do, I will never tip a delivery person, especially because I ask them every time I call.

	05-05-2002 09:44									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Orange, are you on CRACK? 15% for a delivery person? No way. 10% max. They didn't have to come and refill my water, make sure everything's ok, get me new napkins, bus my table, etc. They just showed up at my door with food. No way I give them as much as a waitperson. I give bartender's $1 tip per drink I order. Seems to be standard.

oh c'mon, I order a calzone and give the guy two quarters tip??

	05-05-2002 09:58									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I think tipping is a silly idea. There seems to be quite a vicious tipping culture in the US and if you don't tip, consider your nation to be up their with Iraq for the next invasion I just find it awkward, I like to know how much the meal costs and pay that amount, not be expected to fork out some undisclosed sum which more often than not, I cannot afford.

So essentially your quibble is the fact that you can't afford to tip. Iirc, you are currently unemployed, so this antipathy does follow logically from the realities of your financial state.

Solution: don't eat out. If you can't afford to do it properly, then don't do it at all.

	05-05-2002 10:00									#58
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Yeah, Provost...It's time you discovered Ramen noodles (6 packs for a $1)

Orange--well, most delivery places around here have a $10 minimum. I think $1 for a $10 delivery is fair. $1.50 is pushing it, dammit.

	05-05-2002 10:10									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Some of you Americans just seem to have more money than sense

And some of you Brits seem to have have neither. Actually, the lot of you do seem rather poor... but maybe that's just the age group.

quote: but then again, bear in mind that it is proportionally a lot cheaper to eat out in the US, which would probably account for our greater level of stinginess regarding tips.

Why is it proportionally cheaper to eat out in the US? Is it proportionally cheaper to "eat in" in the US? If not, then why is eating out so much more expensive? If so, why is there a disparity viz the prices of foodstuffs?

	05-05-2002 10:14									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin If taxes were labelled on petrol pumps, the public would be shocked. "How much ****ing tax!?!?!?!?" would roar out at petrol stations across the country.

Actually, the taxes are labelled on the gas pumps here in Tennessee: 39.6 cents a gallon - almost 1/3rd of the total cost per gallon!

I don't understand why your companies don't put out that information for public consumption: it makes them look less greedy while providing a public information service. It's a win-win situation all around!