04-05-2002 23:46									#1
	Caspians Scenario Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

[Edit] Now concentrating on MP version. (15-10-2002)

Ok, so I'm at the begining of a new scenario project. It is set during WWII (everyone yawns ) and you play as the Germans (faces are burried in hands )
But wait!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not your typical 1939 Gerries kick butt scenario. In fact, it doesn't even start in 1939.

Attachment: me262.jpg
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Last edited by Caspian on 15-10-2002 at 18:07

	04-05-2002 23:51									#2
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Tell me more, tell me more, does it happen after 1944?
Tell me more, tell me more, is it an alternative history war?

	05-05-2002 00:29									#3
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The Scenario begins with the Soviet offensive at Stalingrad, codenamed Uranus. It is generally agreed that this marked the absolute turning point for German fortunes in WWII. You must conduct a desperate fighting withdrawal back through Russia (and France after D-Day) to the German borders. Here you must decisively halt your enemies!

Attachment: jagdpanther.jpg
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	05-05-2002 00:41									#4
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And here is the new map of Europe I am presently creating over which the war shall be fought.

Attachment: newmap.jpg
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	05-05-2002 01:03									#5
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If you can fend of the inevitable you might give the Reich a breathing space in which the long awaited wonder weapons can sweep the Skies clean of allied raiders. What will be result of a battle between allied numerical superiority and axis technical ingenuity?

	05-05-2002 01:06									#6
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I knew it, that's why there's the wide Rhine: for Operations Grenade and Plunder in 1945!

	05-05-2002 01:06									#7
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Pants, forgot to attach this image.

Attachment: ho229.jpg
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	05-05-2002 01:18									#8
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Yeah, good guess Anzac. Also, I had an idea for an Operation Market Garden event which requires a bridge over a river.It also helps the German player maintain a cohesive border. The major battles are going to take place in the east and I want to simulate the American air offensive also. I've got loads of ideas that I think are original. One particular idea is to start with tanks and aircraft obselete with certain cities producing them. This simulates the fact that you can't just move production centres anywhere. However, I want to put in "dispersed armour/aircraft production" techs that will allow the player to build anywhere after the neccesary research. I thought it was a kick ass idea. What do you think?

Last edited by Caspian on 05-05-2002 at 01:26

	05-05-2002 11:33									#9
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Me-262's and flying wings? Sounds too good to be true! Love the concept and map, and yes I like the idea about production. My only question is, will this be an Anstieg-esque scenario where you can play only one civ because there are so many events and other features embedded in the enemy's progression, or will you be able to play anyone or possibly even MP? Either would be fine, but I'm just curious. The nature of the scenario would suggest the former.

	05-05-2002 15:47									#10
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Yes Darius, the single player version will almost certainly have to be played as the Germans due to the events. However, I was thinking of starting with an MP version for several reasons. I want to simulate the Allied air raids but the AI does funny things with bombers. I know nemo had problems with his blitz scenario for this reason. A human opponent could conduct this properly.
I'm glad that you like the concept

[Edit] Now concentrating on MP version. (15-10-2002)

Last edited by Caspian on 15-10-2002 at 18:06

	05-05-2002 19:23									#11
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This sounds great! If you need any graphics let me know, I have plenty sitting on my harddrive

For the air offensive: How about have "factory" units which you need to protect or else you lose money and the allies gain units? Also you could create planes by event in Germany, so you wouldn't have to worry about Allies knowing how to strategically bomb.

	05-05-2002 19:59									#12
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Thanks for the advice Anzac. I was planning to do what you suggested with the factories. Also, I'm going to place a Lancaster Bomber in the Nuclear slot and rename the Unit "Thousand Bomber Raid". The AI will be awarded these occasionally. At the start of the game the germans have a huge amount of funds which are slowly draining away as the war progresses. Certain events will take amounts from the treasury (such as factor being bombed or a key ally being knocked out of the war (Hungary and Romania appear as AI controlled civs)) In addition, all units have a high production value which will neccesitate the buy unit option unless you want to wait ages for them. This will be slightly balanced by all of the trade units which will be produced in conquered cities to be disbanded in germany. House Rule; only Reich cities can produce War like units.

	05-05-2002 22:52									#13
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it sounds good, but is this scenario ever going to be finish??

	06-05-2002 01:04									#14
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Well, I hope so Shaka. But hey, I might get struck by lightning tomorrow so I don't want to give any guarantees

	06-05-2002 03:18									#15
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Yes, no amount of events and gifts can make up for the AI's stupidity, so an MP must be available at some point.

But by all means don't rush it because of our impatience; I want it to be good.

I have a pretty extensive graphics collection too, if you need anything. I even made a few for my own late-war scenario I'm working on. For example, here's the Jack Northrop's XB-35, an all-purpose jet flying wing, and Kobayashi's ME-262:

Attachment: thing.gif
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	06-05-2002 03:26									#16
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Also Caspian: are you using Nemo-eque units, Hi-Res, or others? Because if Nemo-esque, I have some good planes(also some from Curt Sibling), tanks, and infantry.

	06-05-2002 03:32									#17
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This looks like it'll be a very intriguing scenario should it see fruition. I sincerely hope it's completed.

And yes, this is my poor attempt at making that cool bomber into a unit...

Attachment: bomber.gif
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	06-05-2002 04:49									#18
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Thanks for all the comments. The units will be nemo-esque. There are two new units in particular that I would like to get. The Arado Ar234 Blitz (experimenting with Anzacs Ju287 at the mo, cos the fuselage is spot on) and the Go/Ho 229 Flying wing (as depicted above).

	06-05-2002 04:56									#19
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I'm going to post some comps by Curt Sibling in Graphics Showcase: they probably will work in your scenario.

	06-05-2002 05:49									#20
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This looks really good. Definetely consider making an MP version though. I think this would be great fun not just as a 'defending the Reich' scenario for the Germans but as a 'race for Berlin' scenario for the Allies and USSR.

	06-05-2002 15:32									#21
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Yeah, that's a great idea winterfritz. Thing is, for the first part of the game the allies are limited to the air offensive. Not sure if this would become slightly tedious for a human player?

	06-05-2002 16:04									#22
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Yeah, that may be a problem. Perhaps you could give the Allies only a small air force and a very small army at the beginning. Then they'd have to get the strategic bombing going themselves, as well as build up an their forces for D-Day.

But I think that the air offensive alone could be made pretty interesting. I liked that 'thousand bomber raid' nuclear weapon idea. Something else to maybe add would be barbarian firestorm units, that could be created via events in response to some sort of bombing related trigger. Also, perhaps bombing of factories and the resulting cash bonus could be made essential for rush buying the invasion force for Normandy?

Anyway, I wouldn't find an air war too tedious

Last edited by winterfritz on 06-05-2002 at 16:09

	06-05-2002 17:09									#23
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Hmm, I hadn't thought of that idea Thanks Fritz Maybe if the Allied airforce is small I can have each bomber replaced when destroyed just north of the UK to represent reinforcements from America. Also I could place some radar units (like in Nemo's Blitz) in Northern Europe to give some early warning of incomming raids. That'd be pretty cool. The Allies could send in a decoy to draw out Axis fighters while the main attack slipped through somewhere else. Another rule that I thought is all prop planes stop after they attack, while the jets must land at the end of the turn. This represents their speed and relative short range (also means that they can only be attaked in their hangers).

	06-05-2002 18:48									#24
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Hey Caspian I recognize those pics from some old game I can't remember. What was it?

	06-05-2002 19:41									#25
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Dunno how the original english title sounds like, but game was adapted to italian, it'as "Le armi segrete della Luftwaffe". And there are some ol' fashioned copies still circulating in my hometown, thanks to Leader S.p.A. ...

	06-05-2002 21:18									#26
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Darth Veda, the pics are from an old game called Campaign. It was out on the 8bits. These particular pics come from the Atari St version that I was running on an emulater. I used the screen capture function while running the intro movie which is great (although the game sucked IMHO)

	06-05-2002 21:22									#27
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Prometeus, does "Le armi segrete della Luftwaffe", translate as "secret weapons of the luftwaffe" by any chance? If so, I have that game too. It was one of the first I ever bought for the PC.

	06-05-2002 23:17									#28
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Suggestion: How about representing the Ploesti oil fields with a special unit or maybe just a city. When this unit/city is lost, you lose plenty dineros but it also makes several oil-needing units obsolete. This was used in another scen by...some dude.

Also: will you add wonderweapons such as Maus and such über-tanks?

	06-05-2002 23:25									#29
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And their weapons get even scarier than that. Friend of mine did a long paper on Germany's secret weapons, and it went beyond tanks and planes. It was a while ago, but one thing that sticks out in my mind was a "vortex gun", this inexplicably high-tech device that could distort air molecules so that it could shake planes apart from the ground. I also vaguely remember some sort of cryogenic version of the flamethrower... Damn, I wish I knew where he got his info from.

	16-05-2002 01:24									#30
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Anyone know of any good online map pages I can use to complete my map? I'm happy with city placement and things like that. Just needing some reference material visa vi geographical/terrain features such as forests, marshes, mountain ranges etc.