05-05-2002 07:46									#1
	design versus coding Full PM-box? Change here!

Do you have coding ability?

Are you considering codability as you design?

	05-05-2002 09:54									#2
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Ramses is ensuring that all the ideas put forth can actually be converted into code.

	05-05-2002 11:15									#3
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how?

	05-05-2002 12:22									#4
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I have zero coding ability, personally, though I do work closely with Ram when making something an official component of the game to make sure I'm not promising more than we can deliver.

-=Vel=-

	05-05-2002 12:27									#5
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GP, we have over 10 very capable coders that signed up for the project. Some still in college, some with 20 some years of experience in the coding buisiness...

And coders are always invovled in discussions revolving around the game design so coding ability is always considrered.

Whilst not all coders have the time to work on the project all at the exact time we usually have most of our programmers working on creating Candle'Bre. We have already started coding and hopefully sometime in the very near future we'll have something to show you.

Last edited by xRamsesx on 05-05-2002 at 12:37

	05-05-2002 12:40									#6
	Tired of ads?

And I think I speak for the whole team when I say that we're probably among the most excited people about that part of it! I've already been challenged to a number of MP games, the moment we get our first version ready!

-=Vel=-

	05-05-2002 13:59									#7
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1. Glad to hear it Ram.

2. Still curious for EVEN MORE (lol) details about how design is done and coding ability is reviewed. How often do you go back and forth. What do you do exactly, etc.

3. Any estimate on total man hours of coding that's been done? Been pledged? How many of the 10 are really involved? Most volunteer projects have a few people who really get the work done.

4. I recommend getting Vel involved in some of the coding. Even if he doesn't get anything useful done in terms of subtasks, it will help him design more efficiently. Don't let what heppened with Alan And QS happen with y'all.

	05-05-2002 14:52									#8
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I just got a thought... CBR will be a game Vel will easily master cos he develops it . How unfair for his enemies.

	05-05-2002 15:58									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I just got a thought... CBR will be a game Vel will easily master cos he develops it . How unfair for his enemies.

And should he happen to lose he'll change the rules. Oh the injustice of it all!

	05-05-2002 17:51									#10
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Must... learn... Java!

Just - must... finish... degree... first!

	05-05-2002 22:43									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yeah, I'm finding that I'm slowly being drawn more and more into the coders' realm....when we first started, I didn't even understand the lingo....still don't know all the finer points, but at least I can listen in on a conversation about it and not feel completely lost!

As to the game....well, 's true that the closeness to it might give me a leg up, but....I dunno....we got some crafty people workin' on this thing....

-=Vel=-

	06-05-2002 06:27									#12
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It can't hurt my chances that half the coding team belong to the Skanky Mafia.... nor the fact that I'm writing the combat engine...

"Oh look, my single infantry just defeated your army of archers, cavalry and pikemen.... again... Must be luck"

	06-05-2002 06:41									#13
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Now I think I'm beginning to see a connection here! Skanky....are those Spearmen in Civ3 (the ones that bust up those tanks) YOURS?

-=Vel=-

	06-05-2002 09:55									#14
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I wish I could take credit, but alas. Although great minds do think alike.
Hi Soren

	06-05-2002 17:15									#15
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Well....keep 'em in mind as potential recruits!

-=Vel=-

	06-05-2002 17:25									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns It can't hurt my chances that half the coding team belong to the Skanky Mafia.... nor the fact that I'm writing the combat engine...

Just you? What happened to the army of veteran programmers?

	06-05-2002 18:46									#17
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I wonder, I must be sick . My problem is, I just like to code - for the sake of it .

	06-05-2002 18:53									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Just you? What happened to the army of veteran programmers?

Theres still the army of veteran programmers, but they're working on th other parts of the game. So I get the combat engine all to myself!

(Shame its open-source, cuz then they will discover any built-in cheats too)

	07-05-2002 03:18									#19
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Yeah, and I'm working on the spam part of the program, I mean the aI.

R:PM

	07-05-2002 20:04									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I just got a thought... CBR will be a game Vel will easily master cos he develops it . How unfair for his enemies.

Well he'll prolly release a nice strategy guide to go with it, if it ever goes commercial - so the rest of us will catch up eventually - for a price

Hey thats a point - if and when this all goes on sale, the manual should be top notch!

Rich.

	07-05-2002 21:06									#21
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You bet, Rich....I've said this once before (on our old portal forums, IIRC), but will reiterate it here.

It will be a cold, miserable day in hell before Prima gets to so much as monogram our toilet paper.

For the most part, they produce utter crap, and it will give me great joy if the day ever comes that we're approached by some company rep offering to "do up a strat guide" for us, cos I'm very much looking forward to saying no.



-=Vel=-

	08-05-2002 00:50									#22
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What if a crappy Prima guide will make more than a word of mouth sales of your guide?

How many copies of the SMAC guide did you sell? At what price?

FYI: guides sell better at the time of purchase which for mast games is near release. (unless the game is a sleeper...which yours might be.) So not that much playing and NO patching has occurred when the guide is written.

The guides do have nice graphics though...and are well geared for the neophyte who make up more of the audience than grognards...

	08-05-2002 09:52									#23
	Suffering from ads?

You can have a strategy guide, and then an advanced strategy guide

	08-05-2002 16:02									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You can have a strategy guide, and then an advanced strategy guide

With Designer notes included!

	08-05-2002 18:54									#25
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UR...that was classic...'specially with your last comment!

GP: Even if we stood to make an absolute KILLING by letting Prima do a guide for us, I don't think I could get past the way they turn my stomach. I'd simply keep looking till I found another way....they're not the only company out there that does strat guides....I'd keep searching for an alternative....

As to the SMAX guide, can't give you sales figures, but I will say that it's a heckuva lot more than I ever expected for a game that's three years old. It exceeded all my expectations in that regard, and proved the validity of the POD model in my mind (proved it sufficiently that I'm publishing my two novels using the very same method, this time, with a national ad push).

-=Vel=-

	08-05-2002 22:40									#26
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Warning cutting comments and trolls to follow:

(cutting comment #1) Maybe you can get Alan Emrich to do your guide. He got some free time, recently.

(cutting comment #2) Perhaps your inability to get a publisher to buy your novels also prompted you to self publish?

(cutting comment #3) Why can't you give your SMAC guide sales figures?

Doesn't support argument? Poor accounting (i.e. frayed shoebox )? Or perhaps you did pretty well and didn't quite put everything in the old ten fawty?

[/cutting comments]

Last edited by TCO on 08-05-2002 at 22:55

	08-05-2002 22:50									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You can have a strategy guide, and then an advanced strategy guide

Now, you're thinking like an MBA...

	08-05-2002 22:55									#28
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If Mr. Emrich has free time, perhaps we can interest him in our project....that would be sweet...

The novels, "Guardians" and "Five Days in May"...the reason I opted to go with the POD company that churned out the SMAX guide was because they did a fine job with production, time to market, and product quality, and the total sales figures for an unmarketed book on a three year old game proved beyond all doubting that the model was a viable one. (And because I do tend to be an early adopter of newfangled technology). Unbiased opinion here, but my books are a heckuva lot more entertaining than a whole lot of the tripe that gets published by someone who's the nephew of the editor in chief....I'll shoot you an e-book copy when they're done....see if you agree...

As to my unwillingness to discuss the SMAX guide's sales figures...much the same reasoning as the Firaxis crew's unwillingness to discuss the sales figures of civ3, as evidenced by the conversation to be found here: http://apolyton.net/misc/chat/civ3/121log-best.shtml

-=Vel=-

	08-05-2002 23:01									#29
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quote: Originally posted by GP (cutting comment #3) Why can't you give your SMAC guide sales figures? Doesn't support argument? Poor accounting (i.e. frayed shoebox )? [/cutting comments]

Maybe he doesn't have them to hand right now. Why would he?

Maybe that was a personal question and information that Vel wouldn't feel comfortable about discussing on a public forum.

I dunno though.

You seem to have an awful lot of confrontational questions and significantly less helpful suggestions GP...

	08-05-2002 23:02									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx If Mr. Emrich has free time, perhaps we can interest him in our project....that would be sweet...

He's sitting by the phone...

quote: Unbiased opinion here, but my books are a heckuva lot more entertaining than a whole lot of the tripe that gets published by someone who's the nephew of the editor in chief....

Sorry to hear you couldn't sell them...

quote: As to my unwillingness to discuss the SMAX guide's sales figures...much the same reasoning as the Firaxis crew's unwillingness to discuss the sales figures of civ3, as evidenced by the conversation to be found here: http://apolyton.net/misc/chat/civ3/121log-best.shtml

Oh...you naughty boy, you. cheatin' on that ten fawty!