08-05-2002 17:31									#1
	Rifleman, Infantry, and MF use during offense Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Has anyone noticed that since 1.21f the AI tends to rely on Riflemen, Infantry, and Mech Infantry more for offense than before? It seems that the AI does not use Cavalry, Tanks, or Modern Armor as much as during 1.17f.

Do you find this to be a problem or good thinking WRT the AI? Personally I think that this makes it harder to kick the AI out of your territory. The only disadvantage I can think of for the AI would be that he can't take cities from you as quickly as he could have using fast attack units.

	08-05-2002 18:28									#2
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Ok so I guess that no one has noticed this or this topic is not interesting enough.

Try starting a new game and see for yourself if this is true or not. Make sure you have the 1.21f patch. I know I'm not imagining this. The AI does tend use ground troops more now in the offense.

	08-05-2002 18:46									#3
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Sorry, I'm still using patch 1.17f.

	08-05-2002 18:56									#4
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I noticed that the AI uses city defense units on offense more now. It also uses mounted units. I am in a war with the Germans in my current game. They're attacking my cities with a knight / rifleman combo. I'll assume that once they get Military Tradition, they'll use cavalry / rifleman. It's still the slow trickle, but they are using combined forces.

I think it is a good thing. It's a lot easier to kill stacks of knights with cavalry / knights than it is to kill stacks with riflemen in them.

Give people more than an hour to reply.

	08-05-2002 19:07									#5
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Yea, this is mentioned in the "patch-chat" snippet you can access on the civ3 main page (Apolyton). They allowed riflemen, infantry, etc. to be used as offensive units as well.

	08-05-2002 19:22									#6
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Yeah, I'll second that notion that the AI now using "defensive" units for offense. I freaked out when the AI sent 30 infantry to attack my forces that were just in the process of upgrading to rifelman/building railroads.

I was most impressed because I typically never attacked using infantry (always defense) and it was kind of cool to see the AI do something that I had not thought of.

I must say I was quite impressed as they were quite effective. I can't say I agree with using MechInf to attack when there is Modern Armor lying around but it made the AI much more effective at repelling my attacks.

Definitely a thumbs up in my opinion

	08-05-2002 20:00									#7
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Sorry if I seemed uppity there............I guess I was really excited to see the AI try out new tactics in my current game.

The situation I was up against was deceiving actually. My military advisor (I'm playing as the English) tells me that the Americans military is puny. I think great, now I can grab some more land. Trouble is they have a mountainous terrain on the border I share with them. I figured since I outnumber them anyway I'll just go in there and grind them down with brute strength.

I was in for a shock. We both had military tactics and rubber at this point in the game. I set up my attack forces as usual to deal with the infantry defenders in the bordering American cities. You know lots of artillery, a couple of infantry to defend them, and a bunch of cavalry. My invading force was indeed stalled somewhat on the mountainous terrain. I didn't have any galleons in the area to perform seaborne assaults. The next turn I noticed the AI had two stacks of 4-5 units of infantry in my territory. They were definately heading for my horse resource and a lightly defended town of mine. The AI used it's cavalry force to counterattack my invasion. It was quite beautifully executed actually! The Ai was actually using two different forces to deal with my invasion and to try to invade me.

Since the mobile force I left behind to defend my land was composed only of cavalry I had a hard time driving the Americans out of my territory. Cavalry vs. infantry don't fair well unless supported by artillery.

Now I can only imagine the horror that will be unleashed upon me when the XP comes out and we all play against each other!

	08-05-2002 20:26									#8
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I've seen the AI like Riflemen much more ever since 1.21.

	09-05-2002 00:16									#9
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The AI on several occasions has swamped me with MI, not attacking my cities but overrunning my borders and pillaging deep inside my territory. Usually focused artillery/bomber actions plus a few mod. Armor take care of the problem, but it takes several turns and by that time I'm already starting to feel the war weariness.

	09-05-2002 00:35									#10
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Yep, I can confirm that the AI seems to be using footsloggers more than before, particularly riflemen. I don't mind, actually. I had a field day defending against a Greek invasion which consisted of several large stacks of riflemen with longbowmen, knights and the occasional cavalry. They slowly marched up to my city, as I picked at them with cavalry. I then bombarded them with the cannons I had rush-bought over the previous turns, and unleashed my cav, my cav army, my elite samurai and swordsmen. I annihilated them, and gained a couple of leaders.

I can see situations where this may help the AI, but if they would just stack a LARGE number of Cav together behind the border where I can't see them, and THEN sneak attack me, they would at least manage to take a few border towns and shake me up. Using 1-move units gives me too much time to beef up my defenses.

-Arrian

	09-05-2002 09:54									#11
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I to have noticed this. The AI is finally getting a bit be more of a challenge.

	09-05-2002 13:12									#12
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But itz onl33 more difficult to take the AIz cit33z, I walkz all over the AIz still, MP iz the only challenge and I will rockz at it.

	09-05-2002 17:14									#13
	Re: Rifleman, Infantry, and MF use during offense Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich Has anyone noticed that since 1.21f the AI tends to rely on Riflemen, Infantry, and Mech Infantry more for offense than before? It seems that the AI does not use Cavalry, Tanks, or Modern Armor as much as during 1.17f. Do you find this to be a problem or good thinking WRT the AI? Personally I think that this makes it harder to kick the AI out of your territory. The only disadvantage I can think of for the AI would be that he can't take cities from you as quickly as he could have using fast attack units.

hi ,

it also depends on what level you play , and you can put the level in the editor up for the AI , that seems to work , .;;

have a nice day

	09-05-2002 18:51									#14
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As Soren said in the 1.21 chat. If the AI can't get Tanks and Cavalry, it will be attacking with Infantry now - no longer using Longbowmen vs. Riflemen.

Hence, I assume that if it's Industrial Age, and the AI got no Cavalry, it will also be using Riflemen on offense. At least I have been attacked by 70 Riflemen my last game . Well, 70 units crossed by border suddenly, but at least 50 of those were Riflemen.

	09-05-2002 19:15									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Solver As Soren said in the 1.21 chat. If the AI can't get Tanks and Cavalry, it will be attacking with Infantry now - no longer using Longbowmen vs. Riflemen. Hence, I assume that if it's Industrial Age, and the AI got no Cavalry, it will also be using Riflemen on offense. At least I have been attacked by 70 Riflemen my last game . Well, 70 units crossed by border suddenly, but at least 50 of those were Riflemen.

hi ,

Solver you bad boy , what did ya do to get that , ....??

no i like to know , colecting some data

have a nice day

	09-05-2002 19:55									#16
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I knew it! Based on all your feedback I'm not alone in experiencing this.

It certainly is a welcome change to see the ai using different tactics. I've found that now instead of having a purely mobile defense force (i.e. cavalry/knights) protecting my internal security I also have a stack of arty protected by ground troops to help soften up the intruders before the cavalry/knights take care of them.

	09-05-2002 22:49									#17
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Panag, if you refer to what I posted, go read the log of the last chat. Soren is stating those facts there clearly.

	10-05-2002 00:29									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Panag, if you refer to what I posted, go read the log of the last chat. Soren is stating those facts there clearly.

hi ,

i just want to know some small details that's all

oh the chat , i was there, ....

have a nice day