08-05-2002 21:52									#1
	Capture The Flag? Increase the size of your Attachments

Does anyone have a clue on how that would work in Civ3? It sounds pretty strange, for a strategy game, can't wait to see it

But overall I'm pretty happy about what they have included...

	08-05-2002 21:59									#2
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Could be exactly the same, a flag unit or square, most probably, within your terrirtory, as a start unit, that the enemy has to kill/occupy and maybe hold.

	08-05-2002 23:03									#3
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It sounds like it could be pretty cool, although we will have to see how they implement it before we say for sure.

	09-05-2002 00:18									#4
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Mike B. from Firaxis, reply! I know you're viewing this !

	09-05-2002 01:01									#5
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Until this concept is properly explained, I will see it suspiciously. It does not sound good to me.

	09-05-2002 01:05									#6
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Sounds like fun to me

	09-05-2002 01:07									#7
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Well its better to have a feature that gets boring after the first time than not to have it at all.

	09-05-2002 01:50									#8
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Well people, not to jump on anybody, but remember that earlier we've complained on the lack of new-thinking(well, some have! ) in this game, so now that we've got that, we should be constructive and try to see the possibilities!

I must confess that this seems weired, but I'm sure that Firaxis can do something good with this idea, either alone or with our help!

Maybe the "flag" is a city or wonder? Let's say you have to capture the UN or something?

	09-05-2002 02:28									#9
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I'd imagine it's a special unit, much like a catapult, that needs to be captured and taken back to one's capital as a victory condition.

	09-05-2002 03:16									#10
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This is awesome people. Don't think of it as just capture the flag, it's "capture the Lost Ark" "capture the Holy Sepulchre" "capture the Lord's Lost Rings". This could totally transform games where capture the flag is enabled - and could help shorten MP games.

	11-05-2002 16:55									#11
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Hm interesting. But what would happen if I transport my flag unit with a galley and it sinks in the ocean or a enemy sink the boat?
Or it gets destroyed by barbarians?

-> The enemy cant capture my flag, he cant win


Hm, anyways I think bevor u can capture a flag-unit from the enemy you have to nearly completly destroy him.

	11-05-2002 17:19									#12
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Well, it could be that you can't move the flag (say it's stuck in your capital) or if you lose in any way you lose the game.

	11-05-2002 17:52									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Tom201 Hm interesting. But what would happen if I transport my flag unit with a galley and it sinks in the ocean or a enemy sink the boat? Or it gets destroyed by barbarians? -> The enemy cant capture my flag, he cant win

Maybe in that case the flag unit should reappear in your capital. Quite easy to make it so that only rival civs and not barbarians/ship sinking can cause it to be captured.

	11-05-2002 20:02									#14
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Anyone play the game Return Fire? You'd drive around with tanks, jeeps and helicopters etc. blowing up the other player's stuff and trying to capture their flag. The jeep could drive in the water, but if it died the flag would float around until it washer ashore. Perhaps that's what could happen, resulting in quite a panic for the player who loses it and doesn't want it landing on someone else's shore.
Then again, perhaps it can't be transported, be kind of unfair to continuously airlift it around, or guard it on a 1x1 island and just sit there till someone gets Marines. It's probably in one spot, where you start in 3000 BC.

	11-05-2002 23:42									#15
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they could make special "Flag bearer" units with stats similar to a GL, and the player would have to hold onto the flag for a certain time period, sending all the other civs against him. This seems like a big time warmonger idea.

	11-05-2002 23:53									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Andrew_Jay Then again, perhaps it can't be transported, be kind of unfair to continuously airlift it around, or guard it on a 1x1 island and just sit there till someone gets Marines. It's probably in one spot, where you start in 3000 BC.

I could see this being fairly enjoyable if it was a "king of the hill" type game, so long as it wasn't where a civ started.

I could also see it as entertaining if some variation of the flag chase. I can think of a couple ways to play the game. Keep in in the capital, in the heart of your empire, so they have to destroy your civ (basically) to take the flag. Or you could smuggle it out on a galleon to a hidden location and just hope that no one would stumble upon it. In this case, the civ map would be priceless.

Either way, sounds like a fun, quck, game.

	15-05-2002 00:24									#17
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I think the most fun way to do this would be to have each human civ get a flag-bearer unit (maybe this could be the beginning worker, but with a different picture file) The first civ to capture another civ's flag-bearer would win the game. (Hmm - do I risk building that road far out from my home city, or wait til I build another worker??) To make it even more interesting, have the restart option selected, so even if a civ gets wiped out, its flag bearer could try to escape to the restart point. Of course, AI civ's wouldn't have flags, so beating up on the AI wouldn't do anyone much good.

	15-05-2002 04:11									#18
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It will most likely be a fixed point that must be defended, that is the basic concept of "capture the flag" in military wargames. If you are looking for a mobile target try regecide. Capture the flag will be the shortest of the special MP scenarios, regecide a bit harder and elimination the longest and hardest. I expect elimination to have limited number of settlers available to each player.

	15-05-2002 15:54									#19
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I think you could compare it to chess, where the king acts as the flag.

	15-05-2002 17:08									#20
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More likely you could compare Regicide to chess, where the king acts as the . . . king.

	16-05-2002 07:25									#21
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Here are my two picks.

1: God save the King. (AKA Protect the Pres.)

Every civ gets a leader. This leader can not be disbanded. You're job is to prevent him from being killed (can't capture). If he/she dies, you lose, since that leader represents you. LOL.

2: Capture the Capital.

Just capture the enemy capital. Capitals don't "bounce", so you won't be playing "follow the capital" like in so many of my games.

Here's the catch though, it takes 2 enemy units for each citizen to effectivly capture it. So, if you have say, 6 civis in Rome, and you'd need to place 12 units to capture it and win the game. While the enemy units are in the city, that owner of the city can only build units that can be drafted, and can not build another palace in another city. Once the drafted unit is built, it attacks any enemy unit on the squere. Perhaps even retaking the city.

If a third civ trys to take over a capital, that already has enemy units in it, it will need to destroy ALL those enemy units to place it's own units into the city.

The player with their units in the enemy capital, can't do anything. Unless you have battlefield meds wonder, those units won't heal. Those units can't be upgraded or move out of the city. They are "glued" in the city.

Anyone want to comment about this?

	16-05-2002 07:39									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Here are my two picks. 1: God save the King. (AKA Protect the Pres.) Every civ gets a leader. This leader can not be disbanded. You're job is to prevent him from being killed (can't capture). If he/she dies, you lose, since that leader represents you. LOL. 2: Capture the Capital. Just capture the enemy capital. Capitals don't "bounce", so you won't be playing "follow the capital" like in so many of my games. Here's the catch though, it takes 2 enemy units for each citizen to effectivly capture it. So, if you have say, 6 civis in Rome, and you'd need to place 12 units to capture it and win the game. While the enemy units are in the city, that owner of the city can only build units that can be drafted, and can not build another palace in another city. Once the drafted unit is built, it attacks any enemy unit on the squere. Perhaps even retaking the city. If a third civ trys to take over a capital, that already has enemy units in it, it will need to destroy ALL those enemy units to place it's own units into the city. The player with their units in the enemy capital, can't do anything. Unless you have battlefield meds wonder, those units won't heal. Those units can't be upgraded or move out of the city. They are "glued" in the city. Anyone want to comment about this?

So you mean that if my capital is size 12, they have to have 24 guys to capture it. LOL! That would be great for a crappy player like me, however I don't like it because it would be hard. Also it would favor a civ, like, say the Aztecs, because of their Jaguar Warriors. I think that holding the city for two turns is a better idea. The first options good though.

	16-05-2002 08:24									#23
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quote: Originally posted by TheBigTurkey So you mean that if my capital is size 12, they have to have 24 guys to capture it. LOL! That would be great for a crappy player like me, however I don't like it because it would be hard. Also it would favor a civ, like, say the Aztecs, because of their Jaguar Warriors. I think that holding the city for two turns is a better idea. The first options good though.

Wow, thank you for reminding me on the JWs. How about 5 turns? It would give a little leway to the defending player. Or just have a little spin box when you're starting a game that sets it X turns.

I was thinking of my oringal idea in terms of Industrial/Modern Age. Thanks for the warning.

	16-05-2002 23:14									#24
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CTF... Think of Quake.

I think your flag would start in your capital and is immobile unless captured. It would be a leader-like unit (no attack or defense). You would have to take another civs flag back to your capital. After you reach your capital, the other civ is out of the game or joins you or something.

	17-05-2002 09:42									#25
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I don't see what the difference between Capture the Flag, and Regicide would ever be.

	17-05-2002 13:53									#26
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I think that in Regicide (ala AOK), you can move your King, and when he dies, you lose. In CTF, you can't move your flag and have to protect it where it stands. When the enemy captures it, he has to bring it back to his own flag, which must not be captured (you can capture his flag while yours is captured to avoid him winning).
I think CTF can bee fun, because you'll see many strategies to make the opponent not win, while you should have lost already.

	17-05-2002 16:48									#27
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Exactly, capture the flag is by definition a stationary unit. Regicide is obviously going to be a unit you can move (so you could hide your king in some obscure area of the map for example, or retreat from a lost capital). I can see regicide taking a lot longer to finish.

	17-05-2002 20:59									#28
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Regicide: mobile unit that the enemy must find and destroy wherever it is,
CTF: immobile unit that the enemy must find and then move back to it's own flag.
So the two are very similar, but little rule changes make them different and balance each game out.

	17-05-2002 21:44									#29
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"Capture the flag"? I haven't heard about this, but your theories sound interesting.