07-05-2001 09:30									#1
	unique civs: a proposal Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The dominance of popular music by africans and their descendants is a lnger lived phenomenon, and much more clearly tied to long lived cultural traits, then, say, the temporary German dominance in armour tactics.

In civ3 African civs, (say the Zulus) should have, instead of elvises, "louis armstrongs" A louis should have double the happiness impact of an elvis.

Think they'll put this in the game?

Before you say this is racist, realize that it is no more racist than other manifestations of the "unique race" idea that have been suggested for the game.

LOTM

	07-05-2001 09:57									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

Why dont you drop this whole racist thing. The racisted argument is the dumbest thing people can argue about. Stop whineing about your stupid bull****.

	07-05-2001 00:28									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have listen to a couple of books on cassette, by a famous swedish journalist and foreign-correspondent. For over 25 years he have have reported to swedish news-television, both from france, spain, south-east asia and many other places. These cassette-books was about comparing studies in national and cultural behavior. Nothing scientificly dead-serious - just some observations presented in a entertaining way.

It was really interesting to listen how nations & people who lived in them, was more deeply effected by their own nation-cultural way of looking on things, then they perhaps like admit to themselves. One can really talk about specific and indevidualy different national-/cultural mentalities here. Especially in a melting-pot like Europe.

The truth is that each nation is in many ways still like a little duck-pond, with its own unique and strange (well, strange in the eyes of its neighbors) national and cultural habits. Sweden for example, is a tiny pond, while france and spain are both somewhat bigger ponds. The national mentality-differences between france and spain are clear and unquestionable. USA is by no means "urban", or "the norm" on the worldstage in this respect. USA is nationally/culturally a duckpond to - although a rather big one. They have a rather big influence culturally by their movie/television perhaps. But, as a people they are nevertheless stamped with certain introvert duckpond-like national/cultural characteristics that make them "typical americans", seen from a foreigners point-of-view.

The bottom line is: I definitly dont like cultural rasism - but, on the other hand; on shouldnt flush out the baby with the bathwater either; that is - ignore the fact that we all ARE culturally different. We are all unique and different as nations and cultures. In a ideal and more peaceful future world, perhaps all peoples can live and work together towards a common goal - just like our internal organs do within our physical bodys. Each organ (= nation/culture) is 100% unique and indevidual, but yet 100% mutually irreplaceable - and they all working together towards good bodily health (= a better world).

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 06, 2001).]

	07-05-2001 01:37									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I just wanted to add to my previous post that I didnt mean to say that "unique civs" automatically is a good thing in Civ-3. We already had mentality- and emphasize-differences in Civ-2 (hence: warlike/peaceful, expansionist/perfectionist, and so on), and I dont want so much more then that. AOK/SMAC-style uniqueness are barely OK, IF its completely checkbox-optional. On the other hand; if its only the military units that are civ-unique; well, then I actually welcome it. I think that could be quite fun - although the unit ADM-data, could also be optional.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 06, 2001).]

	07-05-2001 01:44									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ooops! Double-post! Sorry.
[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 06, 2001).]

	07-05-2001 02:26									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I cannot see a link between unique civs and racism. The civs represent nations, not races!!! And nations are different, that doesn´t mean that one is better...

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	07-05-2001 09:12									#9
	Support Apolyton

I support civ uniqueness as long as it's not given in fixed default set and the game allows you to mold your civ's charactersistics during the game. Your previous actions and the surrounding should be responsible for shaping your civ's nature not the blue sky or things out of nowhere.
[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited May 07, 2001).]