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smellymummy
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Hey has anyone delved into the pc gamer (june issue) preview yet? I picked up my issue from the mailbox a while back, it has a few screenshots, 2 are the same that snapcase posted (except the city view shows 4 rulers), and the other 3 shots show the different views of sid'visor (4 different facial expressions...), a shot with units on a beach (i think i saw it before somewhere else) and a shot of the military advisor screen.
Also, I was glad to see it mentioned at only 50% done... hey maybe we (the fans) can still get some in edgewise.. although quoting from the source: "Aside from the rabid fan base that supplies an inch-thick document of suggestions every month, the designers themselves have had five years to ponder and test new ideas". Hmmm, so thats like 5 feet worth of fan ideas eh? LOL!
It did give numbers for the minor wonders, 24 in all (and 12 major wonders).
Something else, relevant to fog of war, is that units on mountains can see further... I wonder if this means the maps will have different altitude, like SMAC.
Also, it said the game covers 6500 years, and the game should come with 12 scenarios (cool!), and there was also mention of attempts at bringing civ2 scenarios to specs with civ3.
Sorry if this was covered, I just didnt see it anywhere, and after being so excited with snapcase's info, I just had to post this 
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Lord_Davinator
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Kathmandu
Nov 2000
time: 10:42
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I didn't know it was covered... I don't recall seeing a military advisor screen anywhere.... you might have something new after all how about putting it up for all of us to ponder???
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Harlan
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Berkeley, CA, USA
Aug 2005
time: 21:12
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Could you explain what you mean by "bringing civ2 scenarios to specs with civ3"? I didn't understand the meaning of "to specs".
The 6500 years thing is a bit wierd. It doesn't seem to make much sense to start in the middle of a millenium, so perhaps this means the game is going to end in 2500 AD? Perhaps a surprise they'll drop on us later, and they've been purposely holding back on showing future units and so forth? That doesn't make much sense in terms of the number of wonders given though. If all the old ones are still there, as mentioned somewhere else, that means only 8 new wonders, and as we know of the Great Canal, Internet and Pentagon already, that would mean a max of 5 for the future.
So is there an extra 500 future years, or does the game start in 4500 BC instead of 4000 BC, and if so, why??? Its also interesting that they don't say the game covers 6520 years, meaning the game won't be ending in 2020 in any case like Civ2, unless the reporter was just being sloppy.
I also find it really interesting that most of the wonders will be minor wonders. Can that really be correct? The examples of minor wonders given, like Manhattan Project, or Apollo Program, make sense. But how can you have 6 United Nations, or Magellan's Expeditions, or Sun Tzu's War Academies in one world? It seems like almost all of the old 28 wonders would be major wonders, i.e., completely unique things. 12 of the old wonders are specifically tied to famous people like Shakespear or DaVinci, so are those the 12 major ones?
One last thought: if "to specs" means Civ2 scenarios might be converted in Civ3, that would be major in many ways. For one thing, way cool to us Civ2 scenario makers! But more importantly, that says volumes about what Civ3 must be like. It means there must be an Civ3 equivalent to EVERY Civ2 unit, wonder, building, trade good, and so forth, or the conversion couldn't even be contemplated. So perhaps they're taking all of that as a given, and building on that, as it seems to be with what we know about wonders.
[This message has been edited by Harlan (edited April 30, 2001).]
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Ralf
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Sweden
Mar 2000
time: 06:12
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quote:
Originally posted by smellymummy on 04-30-2001 11:00 PM
It did give numbers for the minor wonders, 24 in all (and 12 major wonders).
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This is news for me, but I believe: Good news! 
In civ-2/SMAC it was too easy to Wonder-collect your way to success. Each added wonder only enlarged the distance between the human leader and the AI-civs. Making 12 small wonders available to everyone, and reduce the amount of truly exclusive Wonders to only 12, should re-balance the greedy collecting-strategy somewhat.
Also reducing the total amount of wonder from 27 to 24 (12+12) also helps in making the exclusive Wonders a little more awesome and special, and not just yet another enlarged & extra costly city-improvement. The latter feel would indeed be a problem if they instead would have incremented the amount to above 30 wonders. Even the 27 ones in Civ-2 was a border-case.
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Maybe I misunderstood? Do you mean 24 minor Wonders PLUS 12 major Wonders, making it a grand total of 36?
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quote:
Something else, relevant to fog of war, is that units on mountains can see further... I wonder if this means the maps will have different altitude, like SMAC.
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The SMAC-style wavy terrain-style isnt suitable for Civ-3, I think. What I instead want to see is a more embossed 3D-relief look. The level-differences should be small, but clearly noticeable. Nothing like SC-3000 however - such big level-differences is too much in Civ-3. Perhaps only half of that, or even less.
[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 01, 2001).]
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Lord_Davinator
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Kathmandu
Nov 2000
time: 10:42
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smellymummy... where are you???? we could use a few answers... and a heck of a lot more detail....
alright
alright
PLEASE
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Roman on 05-01-2001 06:09 AM
I also believe this confirmed span of time. Perhaps the previewer in the magazine just made a mistake. I really hope they don't include future techs.
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Why not a basic historical game ending in 2020 or thereabouts, and a seperate extended game with future techs. See if you guys had TOT you'd think of that as a solution. The objection of course is that the AI would need more porgramming, as different strats would make sense. In TOT, being
Civ2, the AI is not strategically sophisticated enough that it really makes much diff (as far as i can tell) Would this be different in Civ3?
Theres been lots of talk about Civ3 borrowing from CTP. Dont y'all think civ3 will borrow from TOT, which, if by different designers, is at least within the franchise? Extended game, perhaps included sci fi game, multi-map options, etc.
LOTM
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To_Serve_Man
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Albany, NY, USA
Apr 1999
time: 00:12
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I too have this magazine, and have read the article on Civ3. On the First page, there is a chart, titled BY THE NUMBERS. Under that it has numbers, they are;
16
Number of civilizations
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8
Number of civs to play with
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12
Number of scenarios planned
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6,500
Number of years covered
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20
Number of developers on Civilization III
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36
Number of Firaxis employees
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2
Number of projects Firaxis has in development
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0
Amount of information about 'Sid's secret project' <---Whats that??
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12
Firaxis' suite address in its 12-story building
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13
Actual floor on the demo
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89.2%
Average rating the five Meier-named games have received in PC Gamer
I don't have a scanner, but I do have a digital camera, once the batteries recharge, i'll take a picture.
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Harlan
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Berkeley, CA, USA
Aug 2005
time: 21:12
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I agree that 8 civs sounds tons better than 7, cos it means the number is probably not hard wired, and could be increased through modifications.
The contradictory info about the game years is frustrating. Perhaps its simply a case of Firaxis themselves not knowing for sure. I'm sure there are lots of features they'll want to add, but whether or not they get in depends on if they run out of time or not. Maybe going into the future is one of these things, and if you ask one Firaxis employee you'll get one answer, and if you ask another you'll get a different one, depnding on how much they want that feature. Remember the game is only half finished.
I know Firaxis doesn't want to say too much about the game at this point, to keep the surprise and so forth. But a few short answers would be great to clarify the contradictory info and controversy swirling around. Namely:
1. In what years will the game begin and end?
2. How many civs can be in the game at once, and can that number be increased through modification?
3. Are minor civs in fact in the game, and could we hear at least a hint of how they different from regular civs?
Any solid info on these questions would be much appreciated!
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MazaNaza
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Michigan, USA
May 1999
time: 05:12
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I haven't visited this site in well over a year, but the announcement of Civ 3 in CGW caught me off gaurd. I decided that it's time for me to delve back into the world of Sid and Civilization (god help my tortured grades).
Anyways, I wonder if anyone has considered that 16 civs may not necessarily mean 8 playable at once - it could be that there are 16 totally individual civs (no repeating colors) that can be played simultaneously. Well, probably not all of them at once but maybe they can be played in any combination (unlike the original, where you could have no Egyptians and Aztecs at once).
Yeah, there are a couple of holes in this theory, the main one being that I am not sure they can make 16 different colors easily distinguishable from each other, but it's a definite possiblity (remember the old 16 color video graphics?).
P.S. I tried to update my e-mail address (the current one is outdated by a year) and it told me that hotmail is banned. Um, why?
--> Norm
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Father Beast
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My head stuck permanently in my civ
Feb 2000
time: 22:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Harlan on 04-30-2001 11:36 PM
The 6500 years thing is a bit wierd. It doesn't seem to make much sense to start in the middle of a millenium, so perhaps this means the game is going to end in 2500 AD? Perhaps a surprise they'll drop on us later, and they've been purposely holding back on showing future units and so forth? That doesn't make much sense in terms of the number of wonders given though. If all the old ones are still there, as mentioned somewhere else, that means only 8 new wonders, and as we know of the Great Canal, Internet and Pentagon already, that would mean a max of 5 for the future.
So is there an extra 500 future years, or does the game start in 4500 BC instead of 4000 BC, and if so, why??? Its also interesting that they don't say the game covers 6520 years, meaning the game won't be ending in 2020 in any case like Civ2, unless the reporter was just being sloppy.
I also find it really interesting that most of the wonders will be minor wonders. Can that really be correct? The examples of minor wonders given, like Manhattan Project, or Apollo Program, make sense. But how can you have 6 United Nations, or Magellan's Expeditions, or Sun Tzu's War Academies in one world? It seems like almost all of the old 28 wonders would be major wonders, i.e., completely unique things. 12 of the old wonders are specifically tied to famous people like Shakespear or DaVinci, so are those the 12 major ones?
[This message has been edited by Harlan (edited April 30, 2001).]
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sorry for picking on you, harlan, but you summarize most of what we're arguing about.
the 6500 years bit may or may not be accurate. Sid DID say from 4000 BC to AROUND 2020 AD, but that "around" seems to be a bit inaccurate if its 480 years away.
Remember also, the game is only 50% completed, and the future ages may not be set in stone (or silicon, as the case may be) yet. they're still playing around with it, figuring if it'll work.
I am a bit surprised at the proposed number of wonders. in the civ2 manual notes, it said they made a big deal about how wonders are supposed to be in groups of 7! it didn't make sense (they said) to talk about the "6 wonders of the ancient world". I wonder if that's something more they'll tweak...
I like the Idea of minor wonders, as has been discussed here endlessly and on THE LIST. I personally was offended every time I built Apollo and every nation got to bask in the results of my work. I rejoiced to hear that Apollo and Manhattan would be civ specific wonders. I don't see why a number of others could be built for each civ. The hoover dam and the 3 rivers dam in china. Xin Yu's could be broken into central training for your civs units (parris island boot camp), and so on.
Since many of the wonders are linked to individuals, and the CGW preview indicated that in addition to military leaders, cultural and economic leaders could arise, then perhaps Leo will be a person instead of a monument. having Leonardo working for your civ would bring upgrades to your units in some way. same with copernicus, newton, and so on.
Of course, I can't help but wonder if some civs would treat them badly. or if they would leave you if you're a raging despotism. imagine the message "Leonardo Da vinci escapes the despotism of the russians and takes refuge among the egyptians". Maybe linked to your culture rating or somesuch.
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Imran I was thinking the same as you. If we are aloud to pick 7 Civs, will the other 8 civs be the minor civs. If that is true than we will be playing with 16 Civs in every game. Just think in one game the German, English could major civs and in another game they could be minor. Of course the US also could be a minor or major Civs in someone else game.
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01-05-2001 08:00
Besides; read quote; "and the game should come with 12 scenarios (cool!)". Some of those scenarios will be SciFi futuristic. Dont worry. 
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