11-05-2002 01:17									#1
	Carribian UU? Put an end to popups!

I was joing around with my friend (of half puerto rican descent) and i inadvertently came up with a PREFECT UU for the puerto rican / cuban / mexican / etc civ: the raftateer. a worker that can go on ocean squares, and merge with other civs cities, bringing corruption, waste, and unhappiness. their citizens in other cities would grow uncontrollably, regaurdless of food or aquaducts, and they would all maintain their nationality, making culture flipping an easy task, as they outnumber the rightful heirs to the country.

	11-05-2002 04:57									#2
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I hope all Apolytoners realize this is the exact oppossite of reality. Immigrants have brought greater economic efficiency and higher standards of living to the developed nations. Europe's anti-immigrant wave is curious in that, without more immigrants the European economies will die for lack of labour. Similarly, in the US, where immigrants perform all the jobs that "the rightful heirs to the country" don't want to perform.

Thank God for boat people.

	11-05-2002 07:02									#3
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i'd also like to poitn out this was just in jest, i make fun of his puerto-rican-ness, and he calls me a polack so it evens out

don't take ir the wrong way

	12-05-2002 02:22									#4
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What about the Shaman unit
The Rastafarian's and the Voodo pracitcers
Perhaps for a small modpack of the caribbean.

You can have the True Voodo versus the Christains versus the Christian Voodo Practicioners versus the Rastafarians

	22-05-2002 22:28									#5
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Or the Caribbean special unit could be the drug runner which brings in all the good Jamaican ganja.

Any city it's placed in gets an increase in happiness, but the production drops like a rock.

	23-05-2002 09:28									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Carver I hope all Apolytoners realize this is the exact oppossite of reality. Immigrants have brought greater economic efficiency and higher standards of living to the developed nations. Europe's anti-immigrant wave is curious in that, without more immigrants the European economies will die for lack of labour. Similarly, in the US, where immigrants perform all the jobs that "the rightful heirs to the country" don't want to perform. Thank God for boat people.

Labor is becoming globalized. We outsource our manufacturing to nations with cheap labor (for better or worse). How many people do you know that work in factorys anymore? Developed nations are becoming service economys and the world economy is becoming globalized. Hence I dont think it matters very much any more.

About the UU, I dont like it. Not only is it subtly stereotypical, it goes against another stereotype: Jamaicans are hard workers. That they hold like 20 jobs at once. Plus it would probably be impossible to implement in the game. Maybe their UU would be a slaver. All nations were heavily involved in the sugar industry, and slavery in these areas was harsh and there was tons of demand. Slavers could move around teh map, nationality invisible (but not the unit) and when they defeat/capture a unit, that unit turns into a worker unit. Concievably they could enslave barbarians or any unit. Maybe they should just go around and capture workers...

	31-05-2002 01:41									#7
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Point.

	27-06-2002 02:47									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Carver I hope all Apolytoners realize this is the exact oppossite of reality. Immigrants have brought greater economic efficiency and higher standards of living to the developed nations. Europe's anti-immigrant wave is curious in that, without more immigrants the European economies will die for lack of labour. Similarly, in the US, where immigrants perform all the jobs that "the rightful heirs to the country" don't want to perform. Thank God for boat people.

90% of the immigrants are here to leech, thats why they risk death running through the channel tunnel to get to britains benefits rather than stay and work in france, where they get next to nothing. And the huge strain on the welfare system, coupled with the spiralling crime rate, is why people are staging a backlash. Some of them are good for the labour shortage, its just a pity the majority are destroying that. Translating this real world scenario into the game though would be a interesting feature, more corruption and maybe even race riots.

	30-06-2002 03:29									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Pythagoras Maybe their UU would be a slaver. All nations were heavily involved in the sugar industry, and slavery in these areas was harsh and there was tons of demand. Slavers could move around teh map, nationality invisible (but not the unit) and when they defeat/capture a unit, that unit turns into a worker unit. Concievably they could enslave barbarians or any unit. Maybe they should just go around and capture workers...

That sounds very familiar, oh wait CTP & CTP2 had slavers that did the same thing. BTW, sort of funny but very, very politicly incorrect.

	30-06-2002 04:31									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Carver I hope all Apolytoners realize this is the exact oppossite of reality. Immigrants have brought greater economic efficiency and higher standards of living to the developed nations. Europe's anti-immigrant wave is curious in that, without more immigrants the European economies will die for lack of labour. Similarly, in the US, where immigrants perform all the jobs that "the rightful heirs to the country" don't want to perform. Thank God for boat people.

God help us.

America has at least eleven MILLION illegal imigrants in this country and they still pour in.

Overseas passports, and "student visas", are a joke and ridiculously easy to get.

Legal immigration has been at absurdly high rates since it started in 1965.

Never has America seen anything like this sort of MASS Open Dor immigration. In the past, periods of immigration were sporadic with time off for assimilation.

Terrorists and drug dealers know how easy it still is to get into America whose security has been and was undermined by the pro=-Immigration fanatics. Of the 19 Muslims who took out the WTC 17 were illegal aliens who had previously entered this country legally.

The INS and Border Patrol still are an inept incompetent jokes.

Not only is American security being undermined by this insanity our culture is too. America is becoming a Tower of Babel; another Balkans.

When my great-grandparents came to America they had a sponsor, a job waiting for them, they went through a health check, and got no goverment handouts. They wanted to become Americans, not just make a buck to mail it home overseas.Today we see hordes of illegal Guatemalans and the like living illegally twenty to a house in suburbia loitering around streetcorners looking for day work, as Americans population skyrockets and its standard of living drops. And when a horde of Guatemalans moves in next duor in your home out on Long Island YOU BET property values crash.

You know your culture in America is being undermined when the street lights that used to say "Go" and "Stop" are being replaced by images of a figure walking and a hand because do many can't - and WON'T - read English.

Immigration? Enough is enough, for awhile.

	30-06-2002 15:09									#11
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If it isn't PC, it won't get into the game.

	01-07-2002 02:11									#12
	Put an end to popups!

Shut up you Polack!

	06-07-2002 06:08									#13
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I like the vodo witch idea,
or how about the "El Chupicabre ".
That would be great!
A little green guy running around, killing livestalk.
*sigh* Maybe in Civilaization 7.

Kman

	08-07-2002 16:20									#14
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quote: Of the 19 Muslims who took out the WTC 17 were illegal aliens who had previously entered this country legally

This is incorrect. IIRC, the number of those whose visas had either expired or were nonexistent was closer to 5.

	09-07-2002 09:04									#15
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse quote: Of the 19 Muslims who took out the WTC 17 were illegal aliens who had previously entered this country legally This is incorrect. IIRC, the number of those whose visas had either expired or were nonexistent was closer to 5.

Can't verify or refute that fact, but I can heartily agree with the rest of what Coracle said.

I have lived in TX my entire life(amazing I can speak and type in proper english, isn't it?) and I have seen the effects of illegal immigration first hand. Now, I will not say all the Hispanics living in TX are illegal, but the majority are.

Not only is this a drain on our government where these criminals, for that is what they are, live off hard-working citizens, it disrupts the legal immigration policy.

When these criminals come into the US, that means that many people who have been on a waiting list to move to the US legally will have to wait. And wait..and wait...

I for one am sick of instructions and the like in Spanish, German, French and Spanish, then finally English.

Was there resentment/anger/hatred against the immigrants coming here from Europe? Some, of course, but not as much as there is against Hispanics. And I don't believe it is because they are not Europeans. It is because they come here illegally, do not try to learn English, are satisfied living on welfare, and generally do not put much back in the system.

I am afraid that, having survived the War of Independence, the Civil War and both world wars, America's greatest threat is within.

The reforms involving the INS are long overdue.

I know this is OT, but I feel that America is constantly being criticized by people who really don't know what they are talking about, because there is more to the US than what you read in history books and the newspaper. Someone said the carribbean UU was a stereotype: so are cowboys, Americans who have no grasp or geography, etc. And I also feel that many other nations are criticized by people who don't have all the facts, and probably don't want them.

Now, call me a racist, a bigot, and say what you will about America, but this is my opinion based on first hand experiences - not what I read in a history book.

	10-07-2002 02:04									#16
	Put an end to popups!

I too have lived in Texas most of my life, and I also see the drain that these illegals put on our economy, and think something should be done. Don't get me wrong, I am 100% for legal migration into the US with little or no restriction, our freaking country was based on this. When my ancestors braved the voyage to America, whether it were from Ireland, Scotland, England, Naples, Sicily, Poland, or everywhere else my mixed heritage hails from, they came here for the most part in rags (though some of my Italian descent was fairly well off) and had to work hard to make there lives better. They wanted to make their lives better. They wanted to be American. The illegal aliens have no desire to be Americans, to learn our language or participate and contribute to our diverse culture. They are merely here to reap the benefits of our generous society (all children, regardless of nationality, at least in Texas I know, must be givin an education and American public education, contrary to common belief, is not cheap and is quite good. My mother taugt in a bilingual school for a few years and the majority of her students were illlegal, and knew almost no English). And don't mention the native, 3rd, 4th, and so on generation Americans who also leach off systems like welfare which are indeed generous and noble programs that are all too often taken advantage of.

Kman

	10-07-2002 04:00									#17
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Wow can you really say things like this in a public forum?
I do however agree with what is being said here.

It's funny really, I'd quite like to live in the US but it's not going to happen despite being a proffesional and a potenial tax payer.

The backlash in Europe will continue I think as long as politicians keep putting the welfare of immigrants over that of tax payers and the immigrants learn that they must accept the countries culture.

If you think things are bad in the US you should see whats going on over here. In the UK Tax payers subsidise the legal bills of asulylum seekers when they appeal against their deportation.

	12-07-2002 10:55									#18
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Well, I *ALSO* live in Texas.

I don't like immigrants who come here to welch, or steal, or laze.

But most don't.

When I get to 7-11 at 9:00 AM for a donut and chocolate milk, a creaky old white dodge van invariably pulls up and hemorrhages a dozen short mexican guys, wearing t-shirts and cheap shoes, sweaty as all hell, having been up working for 4 hours on a job 10 times as hard as I'll be doing today. Mexicans don't take jobs Americans want.

If you could hire a Mexican for $5 an hour, or an American who would supposedly be fluent in English, who would you take? But American's dont want those jobs. American youth think they are entitled to Camaros, and that they should start as VP's of major companies. You have a welfare class that thinks it's better to sit on their fat ass and collect a check rather than start up the job ladder because GOD FORBID they have to start at the bottom rung like everyone else did.

Give me some poor, uneducated Mexican who will leave his family, cross unforgiving terrain, and do work that is backbreaking (landscaping, roofing, painting, day labor) for very little money - give me them all, I will build the greatest nation on Earth. Oh wait, we already did that...

Venger
P.S. As long as they don't steal...

	12-07-2002 11:26									#19
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You know what we need, you know what would solve all of our labor needs ..... robots!

Think about it, armies of robots could patrol our borders and coastline to keep all illegals from entering the country and then do all the work no one else wants to do. Yeah, someday....

Kman

P.S. remember the days when they said by the year 2000 we would all have flying cars and robot servants, and lots of people would be living on the furtile surfaces of the moon, mars, and venus.... I was so disappointed on new years of 1999, so, so disappointed...