11-05-2002 02:04									#1
	Multiple questions... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

My first is:
Whats the deal with Factories and such? So I build a Factory for the 50% bonus, then I get the Hover Dam and all my Factories are gone but replaced with Hydro Plants. A Coal Factory is the same but just uses a different resourse to build ? and Solar plants are basically the same as the Hydro ? and none of these can be used together to make a 100% bonus ? only the Nuclear Plant can give you a 100% bonus. and the Manufacuring Plant will stack with another different factory right ?
Im too confused at the moment, but Im sure its easy to answer that.

My second is:
Does anyone use all of the units available ? There are so many I never buy and Im wondering if Im missing anything... is there something I dont know about them ?

- Marines (too weak to bother with attacking off a boat)
- Paratroopers (airports on the front lines? doubt it)
- Subs (battleships do the job just fine thk you)
- Explorers (by the time navigation comes around, wuts the point?)
- Cant think of a couple others...

Maybe I never use them b/c Im only playing Regent, Ill be finishing my current game tonight and start a Monarch one. Ive been intensively reading these forumz over the last week while work has been slow, and I believe Ive read enough of the Strategy forum to conquer Monarch... we'll see.

TIA!

	11-05-2002 03:29									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Factories give a bonus. Manufacturing Plant adds its bonus on top of the Factory.

Only 1 Power Plant will function in any given city. Hoover Damn is a God-send as it gives a clean Power Plant to all cities on the Continent. Hoover does not replace Factories. It augments them.

Just keep manufacturing facilities and power seperate in your mind. It will be clearer.


Marines rock. Combined with bombardment they can take any coastal AI city I've ever seen. They will be terrors in MP.

Paratroops are not as useful currently, but Air Bases will go a long way towards revitalizing them.

I build subs just because, well, they're subs and they're cool. You are correct that BBs are probably better bang for buck. Again, MP will be a bit different. However, the Nuke Sub is good for it's TacNuke carrying ability.

Explorers can actually be incredibly useful. The AI won't bounce them out of its territory (usually) so you can set up advanced spy posts to give you a good idea what's going on over the border. You can also park them on the AI's unroaded resources and... No Oil for Alex.

The one I never build is Stealth Fighter. Have yet to find a use for them. Stealth Bomber is better in everyway.

	11-05-2002 03:36									#3
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As usual, notyoueither is right on the money. Most of the units described seem weak only because the AI doesn't use them well. They tend to be unbalancing by favoring the human player simply through proper use. When MP comes, watch out for the player who knows how to use marines, paratrooopers, explorers, and subs.

	11-05-2002 04:58									#4
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I build subs because you can enter other civs area without them noticing that you crossed the border. That way you can see what's going on at the coast and you can even block their ship movement.

	11-05-2002 08:14									#5
	Re: Multiple questions... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by ShredZ and Solar plants are basically the same as the Hydro ?

Except that you don't need water for the Solar plant so you can build them in any city. Usefull if you are tired of the polution from a coal plant.

quote: and none of these can be used together to make a 100% bonus ?

A factory is 50% any power plant except nuclear is another 50%. Nuclear is 100%. Only power one plant is functional in any city. The percentages are added all together. They don't multiply. So a coal plant and factory is 100%, a factory and nuclear plant is 150%. A manufacturing plant is another 50% so the maximum is factory + manufacturing plant + nuculear plant = 200%. Then there is the small wonder Iron Works which can give you another 100%. for a max of 300% over base shield production if you build the nuculear plant.

quote: - Marines (too weak to bother with attacking off a boat)

Never had a need for them but I can see that occasion may arise.

quote: - Paratroopers (airports on the front lines? doubt it)

Maybe with the expansion pack. I built one single paratrooper. Not going to bother doing that again. Might be usefull for an attack on a civ that doesn't have enough rail.

quote: - Subs (battleships do the job just fine thk you)

Battleships can't sneak. Subs are good for spying and they can see enemy subs which the AI does build. I like to have three or four subs on a standard map with continents. If I don't need a navy thats different. Then I don't bother with subs.

quote: - Explorers (by the time navigation comes around, wuts the point?)

I haven't ever used them but NYE has a nice use for them in his post. May try it sometime. I do like to see what is going on.

	15-05-2002 19:54									#6
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quote: So a coal plant and factory is 100%

I thought thought these dont stack ... ??? ...well besides that I think I understand completely now.

Im pretty sure the last time I got the Hoover Dam all my Power Plants were removed and replaced with Hydro Plants... maybe this is new with the latest patch ?

TIA!

	15-05-2002 21:53									#7
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Interesting note on Explorers and Marines.

IMO, Marines are rather useless in SP. There's just too many ways to take an AI city without the use of them. Sure, it'll save you a turn in taking the first city on a different continent, but I'd rather save the couple of turns it takes to research it. However, I can see where it can be immensely useful on MP, since surprise would be one of your biggest advantage in a war against another human.

Explorers on the other hand, are extremely useful in SP (recon, first strike pillage, etc.). However, in MP, I doubt they will be of much use, since any smart MP opponent would regard an explorer as a hostile unit, and thus stripping it of the main reason why I use them in SP. Perhaps they'll still be good for run-in pillages on attacks...

Of course, I won't know if this assumption is true until I actually get to play the MP.

	15-05-2002 23:12									#8
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Xarathas, I expect that explorers will be valuable on MP precisely for the run and pillage. The ability to move five tiles into enemy territory and pillage all in one turn will cause some rethinking of tactics we currently use on SP.

	16-05-2002 02:10									#9
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quote: Originally posted by ShredZ I thought thought these dont stack ... ??? ...well besides that I think I understand completely now.

Factories stack with power plants. A coal plant is a power plant.

quote: Im pretty sure the last time I got the Hoover Dam all my Power Plants were removed and replaced with Hydro Plants... maybe this is new with the latest patch ? TIA!

Hoover Dam takes the place of but does not actually replace coal plants. That is, when you get the Hoover Dam the coal plant is still there and it is still polluting. To get rid of the two pollution icons that the coal plant produces its a good idea to sell them. You get twenty gold each and less pollution. You can sell them by right clicking on them in the city improvements list on the bottom left of each city screen.

	16-05-2002 05:15									#10
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quote: all my Factories are gone but replaced with Hydro Plants

No they aren't...