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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:19
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I think I mighta found a good and worthy use for governance points...one that uses them as a reward for excellent play, even....as opposed to a punishment.
What I'm visualizing is a series of EU style sliders that operate between poles (well, and one triangle that I'll get to momentarily).
These would be things like:
Innovative <----> (?)(groping for the right word here)
Anyway, the essence of this slider would be that the more heavily slanted toward innovation you are, the cheaper your tech rate, and the more slanted toward the other end (Pious?) the more influence your temples generate.
*****
The triangle would be between
Feudal
Theocratic Republican
Everybody but Castillar would begin squarely on the Feudal aspect (Castillar would begin slightly toward theocratic). The benefits are:
Feudal - Baseline (standard game effects)
Theocratic - Cheaper dealings with the Church (cheaper intercessions, cheaper spells), but less productivity and less happiness in non-religous majority provinces
Republican - More individual freedom means more productivity, but it also leads to more social discontent (or more precisely, more openly expressed discontent), including a lack of fondness for the military.
*****
Tax Rate:
Oppressive <----> Light
Leaning toward the oppressive end would enable you to generate more cash, but you'd have to also deal with more unhappiness, including the risk of population flight.
Toward the light end, would see less total money coming in, but another boost to productivity and happiness
*****
Budgeting:
Military <----> Non-Military
At game start, the budget is chopped neatly 50/50, this slider would enable you to adjust it, such that a higher percentage of money coming in could be allocated to the military (remembering that money in the military budget can be freely allocated to non military spending, but not the other way around). Unlike the other sliders, this one can only be touched if/when certain conditions are true.
*****
Possibly others?
*****
During the course of the game, when certain (as yet to be defined) conditions are met, you are awarded with governance points. These points can be used to set the overall policies in all your provinces (that is to say, these set policy globally for your holdings). I like the EU notion of only allowing one "step" change every so often, so that it would take a good deal of time and consistently meeting the (as yet to be defined) goals in order to slowly meld your society into the one you're after and that best suits whatever strategy you're pursuing.
Thoughts?
-=Vel=-
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moomin
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Moo Like In Moomin
Jul 2000
time: 05:19
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quote:
During the course of the game, when certain (as yet to be defined) conditions are met, you are awarded with governance points. These points can be used to set the overall policies in all your provinces (that is to say, these set policy globally for your holdings). I like the EU notion of only allowing one "step" change every so often, so that it would take a good deal of time and consistently meeting the (as yet to be defined) goals in order to slowly meld your society into the one you're after and that best suits whatever strategy you're pursuing.
Thoughts?
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Very, very nice, Vel. Glorious. Come to think of it, all games I've really enjoyed has slides of some sort or other - EU, Moo. However, this requires a serious balance act. All to often, I found that optimal strategies set most/all sliders to their end points. Civ3 tech on zero on higher difficulty levels, for instance.
Some specific questions below:
quote:
Budgeting:
Military <----> Non-Military
At game start, the budget is chopped neatly 50/50, this slider would enable you to adjust it, such that a higher percentage of money coming in could be allocated to the military (remembering that money in the military budget can be freely allocated to non military spending, but not the other way around). Unlike the other sliders, this one can only be touched if/when certain conditions are true.
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If I can move military money freely to the ordinary budget, but not the other way around, why wouldn't I want to set the slider to 100% military as soon as possible and use these funds for civilian purposes as they're needed?
quote:
Republican - More individual freedom means more productivity, but it also leads to more social discontent (or more precisely, more openly expressed discontent), including a lack of fondness for the military.
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I was alway bothered by the notion republics were somehow inherently less supportive of their military than, say, kingdoms. By all means, have penalties for extended and draw-out wars far away with heavy losses, but don't make stationing troops in your own provinces bad for morale. When was the last time you saw a local community banging on their drum to expel the local garrison in the US?
Oh, and I think URs suggestion - dogmatic - fits the bill just right.
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FrustratedPoet
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All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
Mar 2002
time: 05:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Innovative <----> (?)(groping for the right word here)
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Another vote for Dogmatic.  There's nothing wrong with Pious, though
quote:
The triangle would be between
Feudal
Theocratic Republican
Everybody but Castillar would begin squarely on the Feudal aspect (Castillar would begin slightly toward theocratic).
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How about starting the Seven slightly biased towards Republic? This seems to fit in with their flavour and also creates some nice balance and symmetry (Og would approve  )
quote:
Feudal - Baseline (standard game effects)
Theocratic - Cheaper dealings with the Church (cheaper intercessions, cheaper spells), but less productivity and less happiness in non-religous majority provinces
Republican - More individual freedom means more productivity, but it also leads to more social discontent (or more precisely, more openly expressed discontent), including a lack of fondness for the military.
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I like these differences, but they shouldn't be too pronounced. As moomin said, a Republican faction should only oppose the military during long periods of war or when there is blanket garrisoning of provincs.
quote:
Budgeting:
Military <----> Non-Military
At game start, the budget is chopped neatly 50/50, this slider would enable you to adjust it, such that a higher percentage of money coming in could be allocated to the military (remembering that money in the military budget can be freely allocated to non military spending, but not the other way around). Unlike the other sliders, this one can only be touched if/when certain conditions are true.
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I also agree with moomin on this issue. Either of the ideas (budget slider, or no military expenditure from the non-military pool) would work well IMHO, but they really don't seem compatible.
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:19
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Initially, the limit was in place to help beat the rush game (money available for infrastructure could be used to build fortifications, and that, coupled with attention to the military would allow a stout early game defense. OTOH, LESS money available for military per turn, would make rushing non-viable, esp. in the face of stouter defenses.
The game-logic behind it was that the people who pay the taxes that provide the gold demand SOMETHING besides military protection for their money, and this system would guarantee that they got it. However, if we require food consumption for the army to move and attack, then the rush game is really ground to a screeching halt, cos suddenly a massive early campaign can cripple (or at least stunt) your growth.
-=Vel=-
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:19
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Ohhh, okay, ya talked me into giving some hints of some of the ideas in my head!
First, I'm seriously toying with using a religion/tolerance slider much like EU has....have each player declare a "state religion" (Castillar's would be decided for them at game start, but it's likely that none of the others would), along with tolerance sliders for the other religions....that seems like it'd work better, given the shape and direction that our magic system is beginning to take.
The second thing, is a production/population slider on the province zoom view for allocating your workers....been rewriting the societal model, taking into account RPM's ideas re: the army and taming the rush beast, and it occurred to me that a system of sliders there would be IDEAL in terms of rapidly allocating your labor to existing structures (farms, banks, research centers, and whatever else you may have built in the province), as well as allocating labor to build new stuff....oh, and to that, unlike civ, where you can build only one thing at a time....in CB(comm), you'll be able to work on up to three projects simultaneously (and hopefully queue more than that).
-=Vel=-
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Chowlett
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of Candle'Bre
May 1999
time: 05:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
The second thing, is a production/population slider on the province zoom view for allocating your workers....been rewriting the societal model, taking into account RPM's ideas re: the army and taming the rush beast, and it occurred to me that a system of sliders there would be IDEAL in terms of rapidly allocating your labor to existing structures (farms, banks, research centers, and whatever else you may have built in the province), as well as allocating labor to build new stuff....oh, and to that, unlike civ, where you can build only one thing at a time....in CB(comm), you'll be able to work on up to three projects simultaneously (and hopefully queue more than that).
-=Vel=- |
Very nice - but will you be able to allocate workers manually? If not, we have to make sure the AI can handle allocating workers unsupervised...
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:19
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Outstanding point, Chowlett, and one I confess I had not considered.
This seems to me to be the *perfect* instance to implement the "simplified rules set" for the AI....set 'em up in such a way where they have a very streamlined, simple rules based approach to efficient building (even if it means giving them a production bonus, but limiting them to only being able to produce one thing at a time so they don't screw it up).
For example, we could institute the "golden rule" for AI civs that before anything else, they needed to grow 110% of the food needed in a given province. That would give them zero starvation, and some food left over to pay for troop movements and attacks.
Then, (given that the AI will have "generic" citizens, while the human player must deal with the persnickety archetypes), set them on a certain set of build priorities based on the following criterion:
a) if the province is not on a border, barracks are high priority (this makes it less likely that AI barracks will be taken, and their teeth summarily pulled)
b) if behind in tech (give them the ability to see everyone's tech level and per turn research rates), build a scribe tower or other tech enhancer
c) build temple (we'll need to teach the AI the value of intercession if confronted unexpectedly with a force they cannot win against).
* It also might be a good thing here to split the AI's revenues between military and non-military...that way, they don't totally neglect infrastructure and just build lossa troops...we could set that up on a governor such that if they were attacked, the "split rule" would not be applicable, and they'd focus on building troops until the danger had passed.
* Another good tactic I'd love to see the AI use....if confronted by a mixed force of regulars and mercenaries...it'd be humorous indeed to see the AI hunt down a sufficient number of regular troops such that the enemy's mercs outnumbered their regulars, and then abruptly pull out....allowing the province to revert to neutrality when the now more numerous mercs tossed the other guys troops out on their hind ends....
-=Vel=-
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21-05-2002 04:03
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