27-04-2001 22:10									#32
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Is that Unit-information working yet? Seems to be the same info as in the other map screen.

	27-04-2001 22:11									#33
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There seems to be a double heart icon (one blue, one red) on the domestic advisor screen. The values for it are exactly the same as for food production. What does this mean?

	27-04-2001 22:12									#34
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Pardon. Seven civs is enough for anybody... except Roman, who has made, what, four separate posts in this thread alone complaining about it.

The terrain graphics here are much better. They're not spectacular, but they're nice. I don't look at these forests and think "ug-leeeee."

I notice they're using placeholder graphics from Civ II for the citizens.

And placeholder city names for the more obscure civs. (Kerplekistan?)

For me, the most encouraging notion in all this is that the game is still a work in progress. The team is still open to new ideas and new ways of implementing things. That means we may still have an opportunity to make our voices heard.

	27-04-2001 22:20									#36
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Thanks Snapcase for the info! What you're doing is great!

	27-04-2001 22:21									#37
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The 7 civs could more than likely be the major civs, or major powers or what have you while there're smaller insignificant nations scattered throughout the globe. At least that's what I'll probably hope

	27-04-2001 22:30									#41
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Well Ralf, they could at least enable more civs through the text files, as Ctp2 did. That would stop the negative aspects which you describe, yet keep many of us wanting a 15 civilization limit placated. It would also be much better for scenario design.

	27-04-2001 22:31									#42
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Snapcase, you are our hero!

the domestic screen is amazing. I love it. it seems to present all the info in a very organized clean way.
I like the detailed info about where your income and costs are coming from. You can get tribute from other civs, you can get interests.
I am glad that there is only sliders for luxury and science. The tax rate slider is probably on a different screen. But this is better because it means that luxury and science is coming from taxes not the surplus. In civ2, your luxury and science actually came from the surplus after taxes. this was not quite accurate. The science and luxury should come from taxes which seems to be in civ3. good.

About only having 7 civs. I think 7 is enough. The more civs in the game, the more strain on the AI. Th number of civs also puts more strain on your computer processor. Having more than 7 civs is NOT realistic, people!

7 civs is enough.

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[This message has been edited by The diplomat (edited April 27, 2001).]

	27-04-2001 22:39									#44
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O-o-kay, last installment of info, and it's a biggie (I should really split it up, but hey.)

(One thing I missed earlier- The Space Race is still in. In case anyone doubted that.)

New info on... Trade, Resources, Culture

Resources: "When you look at the map now, you don't see that many resources. That's because they don't appear until you've researched the technology that needs them. For example, you can't see iron until you've researched iron working. And you might already have some, but it might be somewhere else.

"What we tried to do is clump the stuff. It's not spread evenly over the map. The idea is that one player can corner the market on, say, iron and he becomes a powerbroker in the game. The same thing happens with uranium, so your diplomatic relations become really important. You definately want to have friends that have the stuff you need so that you can trade with them. If not the only way to get the stuff is to attack people.

"By the time you get to the end of the game you really needto have coal, iron, oil and rubber otherwise you can't build anything. The way you develop a civilization, to a large extent, depends on where you start the game and what kind of resources you have available. If you start in an area that has iron you're in good shape at the beginning, but later on in the game iron is not enough."

Trade: You can trade in Luxuries, and resources. Luxuries goods trade is vital to keep happiness up, and resource trade (as you can see above) will be exceptionally important. Keeping peace will be more important than before, because you need a constant supply of resources to build your units. Complex diplomatic treaties and trade agreements can be arranged.

Culture: Accumulated by long-time cultural city improvements (as in last preview). Three effects:

(a) In diplomacy, a high culture rating will make other civs admire you more, and positive outcomes are more likely as a result.

(b) A high culture rating will literally expand your borders, the Greater your civilization the larger it will become.

(c) The aforementioned effect of pacifying newly conquered cities. Cities can now resist in a variety of fun and interesting ways; citizens can refuse to work, lower the defense value of the city, or revolt and rejoin their original civ.

That's all, folks. If there's a great demand I can also scan in the blurred "Baltimore" screenshot from the CGW preview in greater detail...

	27-04-2001 22:41									#45
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Re: the stadium. My thought is that these graphics represent "ancient" and "modern" pictures of the same improvement. So, what in ancient times would be a "Granary," in modern times would be a sort of farm silo. What in ancient times would be a "Colosseum," in modern times would be a stadium of some kind.

It's a forward-thinking approach. If you recall, Civ II had a very modern looking Granary, and it looked terribly out of place in ancient cities. (Y'know, for those of us who didn't get the Pyramids.) On the other hand, if I build a Colosseum in a city, I wouldn't necessary tear it down to make way for a stadium in the modern era. So maybe the way to go here is to make all Colosseums built in the modern era appear as stadiums, while the old Colosseums remain as they are. But Granaries automatically update to become silos. And perhaps Temples, if they are built in the modern era, would appear as churches, but the old Temples in the historic cities don't change. But Marketplaces automatically update to become modern shopping plazas or malls or something. And hey, maybe the more "old" Temples and Colosseums and Libraries you have in modern times, the more Culture points you have...

	27-04-2001 22:59									#46
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One thing im curious about:
How do the player choose/rearrange from which city-area tiles to harvest from? By point-clicking directly on the main map? And where are the harvested tile-resources? (equivalent to foods, trade, shields). I dont see that many on the pre-released screenshots. Some clarifications needed.

	27-04-2001 23:21									#47
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About the Domestic screen, is "fluff" really a tech advance or just a place holder? I sure hope it is not an actual tech advance.

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	27-04-2001 23:49									#49
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In the city viwe I see the Pentagon outside the city walls? That is just confusing. Since there is only a few improvements, how does the Pentagon get built that early?

	28-04-2001 00:03									#51
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LOL Snapcase.

Reminds me of the "fluff" in the Infocom Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy text game.

quote: Fluff is interesting stuff: a deadly poison on Bodega Minor, the diet staple of Frazelon V, the unit of currency on the moons of the Blurfoid System, and the major crop of the laundry supplies planet, Blastus III. One ancient legend claims that four pieces of fluff lie scattered around the Galaxy: each forming one quarter of the seedling of a tree with amazing properties, the sole survivor of the tropical planet Fuzzbol (Footnote 8). The ultimate source of fluff is still a mystery, with the scientific community divided between the Big Lint Bang theory and the White Lint Hole theory. (Footnote 8, should you care to check, informs you that it's not much of a legend really.)

(That icon at the top is me wearing my Joo Janta Peril-Sensitive Sunglasses. - -)
[This message has been edited by EnochF (edited April 27, 2001).]

	28-04-2001 00:41									#52
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Hmfh. A mixed bag of feelings, I have. It's, of course, always good to find out more, but seven civs got me little worried. Does this mean we can only use seven civs in scenarios? Because that might lead to unhistorical oddities all over again.

Armies, hmm, seem to me like mobile forts. I liked the CtP model, and hoped Firaxis would implement something like it, only modified. Still, seeing that armies are in is absolute plus.

I want lots of new wonders, not just 'couple' of them! I think it might be seven new wonders, but we already have found out that The Internet and Grand Canal will be some of them. What else will there be?

Civ-specific units. I thought Firaxis listened to the people. (If the poll on Civ-specific units ended up with people being pro-specifics, then they are listening to people. I might not like it, but I'll acquiesce.)

Barbarians sounds neato!

All in all, I'm getting these little demons on my shoulders saying that Civ3 might *not* be the game of century after all. *Falls to ground from blasphemy*

	28-04-2001 01:00									#53
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Found in one of the picture blurbs (I'm really scraping the bottom of the barrel here, single quote to indicate journalists interpretation rather than verbatim Jeff Briggs): 'Borders have an even greater role to play in Civilization 3 than in Alpha Centauri. Armed units that cross your border without prior consent run the risk of starting a war.' (My italics)

Prior consent, eh?

	28-04-2001 01:35									#55
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Hoy, what happened???! I'd just finished saving all the images and printing them out, when suddenly they've disappeared from their original posts and been replaced by these new ones with 'Apolyton' and 'PCGameplay' all over them! And sorry to say, but after downloading the replacement city view pic and printing it out, its quality is not as good as the original (at least on my printer)!

	28-04-2001 02:07									#57
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My opinion is that seven civs per game *is* enough, for at least most people.

What I am really worried about though, is wheather the "stacked combat" will be like in CTP2, with archers and cannons supporting your infantry, or just a mass of units replacing eachother after dying.

	28-04-2001 02:46									#58
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It seems that PC gaming has graphics from different developement phases of the game. The ones that they showed on their website a few days ago had different irrigation tile improvements.

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	28-04-2001 02:57									#59
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I also like the new variety in the shapes of rivers and roads.

One minor beef, though, is that the roads and rivers are a little hard to see. I'd suggest making the roads a little wider and dark gray, to contrast with the greens and yellows of the landscape. (Mountains are apparently tinged with red and orange, so dark gray roads should contrast just fine.) I'd also suggest making the rivers a little wider, if possible, and maybe a little brighter. We don't want rivers becoming nearly invisible under a tile of irrigation.

*cough* beta-tester *cough*

	28-04-2001 02:59									#60
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I must agree with Mr. Roman.
7 Civs: been there done that. I want at least 15.
Come on... everyone must have above a 500MHZ machine by now! Surely that can handle it.
15 is not much to ask. Even CTP2 works with 15... although it does get a tad slow near the end-game, I'll give ya that. (I won't mention the vegetable intelligence of the AI, though)


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