15-05-2002 01:18									#1
	Which is more important to the US? Remove this text

This isn't meant to be a troll, I'd genuinly like to see what people think - which ideology do you see as more important to the US?

	15-05-2002 01:24									#2
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but what is capitalism without democracy? Neo Nacizm...

Corporate republic

Star wars...

	15-05-2002 01:27									#3
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I'm an American and I'd say democracy. And if we have that, we'll continue to choose capitalism

-Arrian

	15-05-2002 01:29									#4
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Until the revolution comes... and then we spare no one!

	15-05-2002 01:31									#5
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<--- american. it depends who you ask really. i believe that democracy is really important to all americans, but many of them prefer economic freedoms.

	15-05-2002 01:37									#6
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I think the average American (or Westerner for that matter) prefer their material goods to the right to vote).

	15-05-2002 01:38									#7
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I think you're wrong.

By the way, what's up with the "I'm an American and I say capitalism" votes, but no posts to that effect. I think that's a tad fishy.

-Arrian

	15-05-2002 01:39									#8
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But without the right to vote who knows what dark things might happen... I might get even less student loan money! But hang on, I get even less student loan money with the right to vote... I vote money!

	15-05-2002 01:42									#9
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I misunderstood the question before I voted...

I think most Americans assume capitalism and democracy go hand in hand, although they really don't. It's possible to be a liberal despot... unlikely, but possible.

	15-05-2002 02:17									#10
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As an American, I'll happily take Democracy, thank you very much. In fact, I long for the day in which we break the chains of capitalism.

	15-05-2002 02:33									#11
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Democracy is by far superior. Capitalist dicatorships combine corruption with oppression; democratic states combine the ruthless efficiency of capitalism with the people's ability to ensure they benefit. Or some such.

Oh, and I really don't trust those numbers.

	15-05-2002 02:44									#12
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Capitalism, because capitalism is freedom, while democracy can lead to unfree policies and such.

	15-05-2002 02:44									#13
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For the US, Capitalism. For the American people (and all of the world for that matter) it would be democracy, but over there money rules not popular will. And money recreates new popular will. It's fun.

	15-05-2002 02:46									#14
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david floyd,

dictatorships are capitalistic too

	15-05-2002 02:48									#15
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quote: dictatorships are capitalistic too

No they aren't - I'm talking about laissez-faire when I say capitalism. If you can name a laissez-faire dictatorship I'd be interested in emigrating there.

	15-05-2002 02:48									#16
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do you actually know how to pronounce that?

	15-05-2002 02:49									#17
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd No they aren't - I'm talking about laissez-faire when I say capitalism. If you can name a laissez-faire dictatorship I'd be interested in emigrating there.

The Greek one. AFAIK there was not control of the market. I'd be surprised if it was the only one to not control the market.

	15-05-2002 02:50									#18
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Also the Spanish and Portuegeuse

	15-05-2002 02:51									#19
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I bet he doesn't

	15-05-2002 02:55									#20
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Democracy leads to the oppression of the minority by the majority.
Capitalism leads to the oppression of the majority by the minority.

So who is really be oppressed in the US, poor minorities.

	15-05-2002 03:01									#21
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Paiktis,

In practice, the Spanish and Greek economies were not laissez faire...no nation has ever been on a laissez-faire system.

	15-05-2002 03:02									#22
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In fact the US is far more capitalistic than anyone else, but certainly not a true free market by any means.

	15-05-2002 03:04									#23
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Paiktis, In practice, the Spanish and Greek economies were not laissez faire...no nation has ever been on a laissez-faire system.

yes and they still are not (thank God

but you talked about capitalism and the economic system of the dictatorships was definitely capitalistic. the market was not controlled by the state (it was not like the german national socialism system for example).

what happened was that civil liberties were limited to the point they did not exist while the economic system remained capitalistic

	15-05-2002 03:05									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I'm an American and I'd say democracy. And if we have that, we'll continue to choose capitalism -Arrian

Ditto. I also do not think that capitalism can exist without democracy. China's experiment, as was Russia's, with capitalism while restraining democracy is doomed. Ned

	15-05-2002 03:11									#25
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Capitalism is not freedom, it's merely anarchy.
What people seems to forgot is that democratic laws are made to ensure the freedom, not to restrain it. When you do not have laws, you have anarchy, and law of the jungle (the stronger take what he wants, the weaker shut up).
I hardly see why free capitalism is equal to democracy. Free capitalism is the harshest form of dictatorship.

	15-05-2002 03:13									#26
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many americans seem to believe that capitalism equals freedom.

I think this was part of the cold war rhetorics.

	15-05-2002 03:13									#27
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quote: but you talked about capitalism and the economic system of the dictatorships was definitely capitalistic. the market was not controlled by the state (it was not like the german national socialism system for example).

Were there tariffs on any foreign goods, or laws about other nations you could not trade with? Was there a capital-gains tax, or an income or corporate tax? Were there laws against monopolies, price-fixing, or setting prices too low?

If there was any of that - and I'd wager most of that went on - then it wasn't laissez-faire.

	15-05-2002 03:17									#28
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Were there tariffs on any foreign goods, or laws about other nations you could not trade with? Was there a capital-gains tax, or an income or corporate tax? Were there laws against monopolies, price-fixing, or setting prices too low? If there was any of that - and I'd wager most of that went on - then it wasn't laissez-faire.

yes but laissez faire is not the only form of capitalism.

And besides I thought we were talking about capitalism as it exists in the US or the EU for example. that kind of capitalism was in place and active during the dictatorship (give or take)

	15-05-2002 03:20									#29
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quote: yes but laissez faire is not the only form of capitalism.

It's true capitalism, unlike the current mixed economies dominating North America and Europe

quote: And besides I thought we were talking about capitalism as it exists in the US or the EU for example. that kind of capitalism was in place and active during the dictatorship

My mistake, then

	15-05-2002 03:22									#30
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During the Cold War, the USA supported capitalistic dictatorships and helped to overthrow democratically elected govs if the latter happened to be too left. Consequently, Capitalism is more important to the US than Democracy.