15-05-2002 21:20									#1
	We surrender! AI flees in terror from my forces Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I was playing one of my games yesterday, and something happened that convinced me the AI is either smart or incredibly stupid. My cavalry was laying siege to New Orleans with the help of some artillery. New Orleans was a city that they had built early in the game on the other side of my empire, so it was completely surrounded by me. I was having trouble killing their infantry and had moved several cavalry units next to the city so that I could probably take it the next turn. During the AI's turn, a galleon sailed in and out of New Orleans. When it was my turn I discovered that there were no longer any defenders left in the city, so I just waltzed in and took the city without a fight. So, did the AI see that it would eventually lose the city and evacuate the infantry to get some more use out of them? Coincidentally a privateer of mine sunk their galleon the next turn. Or did it just blunder and accidentally move them out of the city? I must say I've never seen anything like this before.

	15-05-2002 22:08									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Ixnay, this is an obvious example of the AI being clever, the action was surely done with intent. It just won't be taking units in and out of the city.

What patch are you using?

Go Soren !

	15-05-2002 22:30									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'm using 1.21.

	15-05-2002 22:37									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I would wager that a Settler was onboard that galleon (especially if New Orleans was still of a size to build one).

JB

	15-05-2002 22:44									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I've seen this many times, not necessarily with ships. The AI will pull units out of cities under siege. I don't really think it's very smart, as those units are usually caught out in the open and killed. Jaybe's probably right that it was a settler team. The AI will attempt to recolonize cities that you've just razed - they will send a defender/settler team right through your massive invasion force to try and rebuild the city. This team will, of course, die.

The AI will also send out last-ditch survival teams from coastal cities. They will be the standard settler team on a boat, and will beeline for some open coastline (usually a tundra island or something like that) and plunk down a city. I'll say this: it does prolong the civ's lifespan, and is a pain in the ass for the human player, who has to hunt down and kill those little outposts (or make peace, which means the AI did its job - it survived).

-Arrian

	15-05-2002 23:52									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Like Arrian, I've seen that many times, but I've never seen that the AI leaves the city completely undefended. Strange, strange...

	15-05-2002 23:56									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Arrian The AI will also send out last-ditch survival teams from coastal cities. They will be the standard settler team on a boat, and will beeline for some open coastline (usually a tundra island or something like that) and plunk down a city. I'll say this: it does prolong the civ's lifespan, and is a pain in the ass for the human player, who has to hunt down and kill those little outposts (or make peace, which means the AI did its job - it survived).

Correct, and it was even more pain in 1.17f and earlier, due to the "sink last galley crashes game" bug. It didn't help to hunt down that last galley, because sinking it you ruined your game. You had to set a sea blockade and kill that galley before you capture the last city. Now, with 1.21f, things are easier.

	16-05-2002 03:20									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've seen the AI leave cities undefended... usually in the face of overwhelming force.

	16-05-2002 05:11									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

You are all missing what this REALLY proves.

The AI's determination to FLOOD the map with settlers building towns everywhere they can is DUMB and DUMBER.

These towns/cities - although annoying in the extreme - are usually INDEFENSIBLE in case of war because they are so isolated.

Thus, strategically, the AI is indeed dumb as a doorknob.

	16-05-2002 05:17									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

It's a genius compared to Civ2 AI.

	16-05-2002 05:19									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

OK, when we get MP, and I show up on your doorstep with 100 Tanks, you're just going to sit there?

Hmmm, if I remember, the Iraqis in Desterm storm SURRENDERED by the 10s of thousands, due to a combo of PsyOps and concentrated overwhelming force. But then, I guess your argument would be that Iraq is secretly controlled by an Ai from Civ.

	16-05-2002 09:56									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: It's a genius compared to Civ2 AI.

And certain posters on this forum too.

	16-05-2002 15:35									#13
	Put an end to popups!

I've actually seen the AI with empty cities that have been there for hundreds of years. I was playing the Imperialism map, and was at war with the Russians (I was the Germans). I had one city on the other continent, the Russians had four. I'd been using cavalry to clear out the barbarians before and sent it across the continent at the Russians. When I got there, one of their cities was completely defenseless.

	16-05-2002 16:17									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I saw the AI move out its units in my current game but I thought they were heading for its other opponent. It didnt leave the city undefended though.

Another new AI strategy (to me) was to found a city in the neutral zone between our civs in the middle of a war. While it had some advantages and disadvantages, I didnt like it. Its kind of like using your buildings to attack with, a la AOE.

	16-05-2002 18:27									#15
	Tired of ads?

yup, I've seen it too. Good Idea, but usually poorly executed.

	16-05-2002 18:56									#16
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns quote: It's a genius compared to Civ2 AI. And certain posters on this forum too.

Well said. Well said indeed. There are few things more annoying than a broken record.

-Arrian

	16-05-2002 19:18									#17
	I've seen it too. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I have seen it a few times where the AI moves units out of a city I am laying into, but never by ship.

For example, last night I am playing as the Americans and am humbling Russia. I have a spy so I check out the forces of a town I have been hitting for a few turns...unsuccessfully, I might add.

According to my spy there are 5 infantry units and 2 artillery. So, I roll in a couple of newly created tanks to prepare for attack on the next turn. During the AI's turn, I watch as they move 3 infantry units out of the city. They don't move together, each one goes in a seperate direction leaving each one unprotected. There were no settlers moving with them. I check the city with my spy again and sure enough, only 2 infantry and artillery units left. So I pick off the lone infantry men with my own infantry and roll the city with my tanks.

It seemed like the AI just gave up.

	17-05-2002 03:01									#18
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Its a good practise to fall back from weak positions to make a tough defensive line.. or front line. It makes it a bit too easy to capture a city though if all the population are removed, maybe the AI should just abandon cities like this to not leave its enemy anything.

	17-05-2002 03:56									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ Its a good practise to fall back from weak positions to make a tough defensive line.. or front line. It makes it a bit too easy to capture a city though if all the population are removed, maybe the AI should just abandon cities like this to not leave its enemy anything.

Uh, ohhhh!

IF the AI already can evacuate cities,
AND with 1.21 cities can be 'disbanded'
THEN
Next thing you know, when an AI metropolis has been ground to a town and you have your whole army ready to strike it, the AI will evacuate it and disband it!!

How would THAT be for a shocker!
I do hope that the AI knows to disband it AFTER it has moved all of its units.

JB

	17-05-2002 04:32									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

very good if that was the intent

	17-05-2002 10:03									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

the AI has the insider knowledge that it can leave the city and get it back in revolt a few turns later.

	18-05-2002 13:03									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

AI's not smart enough to think of a few turns later...

	19-05-2002 09:24									#23
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Its a good practise to fall back from weak positions to make a tough defensive line.. or front line. It makes it a bit too easy to capture a city though if all the population are removed, maybe the AI should just abandon cities like this to not leave its enemy anything.

Yes it is good practice-And a human player does it quite well-ie.-fighting a rearguard action while the main body of the army retreats to more defensable positions and digs in.

The AI however could never be expected to think like this and therefore apperantly botches the attempt.
The AI should stay where it is (in a highly defensable position like a city)since its too stupid to defend its retreating army.

I personally have never seen the AI do this but if they ever do I assure you I will be quite happy that they just made my job easier.

	19-05-2002 10:08									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Tonight, I fell back from a German city that I had captured... and I purposefully did NOT abandon it, so that enemy forces would be held up trying to defend it and quell resistance.

It worked quite well; several turns later, after healing on a mountain, I retook the city, and succesfully invested it with defenders.