16-05-2002 02:46									#61
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A small step in the right direction

	16-05-2002 02:50									#62
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Christian Democrats sound like our beloved Centre Party.

What do Christian Democrats think about agricultural subsidies?

	16-05-2002 02:55									#63
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quote: What do Christian Democrats think about agricultural subsidies?

They invented them. They have a strong base in the rural community here...

PH and Stew, take your discussion out of my thread and continue it on ICQ or by PM please... #^%$ing Brits

	16-05-2002 03:04									#64
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Thanks for ruining my thread guys... Every six months I start one and every time I hope some of you d******s will take it over...

	16-05-2002 03:08									#65
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Na, I think you guys are just a bit ignorant. Thats why you call it stupid. It isnt just 2 partys. Its many parties lumped into two. Republicans are just a coalition of Fascists, Conservatives, Traditionalists, and Moderates. Dem's are all that and to the left. If your a communist, you could join the communist party. But that only has 10,000 members.....soo your better off joining the democrats and reforming the party within.

I take it, faded glory, that one cannot totally agree with everything a major U.S. party stands for without being totally confused!

Ned

	16-05-2002 03:10									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu Christian Democrats sound like our beloved Centre Party. What do Christian Democrats think about agricultural subsidies?

They are, and always have been, the most popular party among Dutch farmers.
They are in favour of agricultural subsidies, but instead of subsidizing products, they want to support farmers' incomes directly.

We had a Centre Party once, it was extremely right-wing.

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	16-05-2002 03:50									#67
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Hey Bod and PH... take your little pissing contest somewhere else.
And I DON'T MEAN ANOTHER THREAD.

If it continues, you are both going to get restricted!

Oh... and if anybody wonders what I'm talking about, it might be because I just deleted their posts to this thread and you can't see them anymore.

	16-05-2002 03:53									#68
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Don't do it! That was one of the funniest sequences of posts I've ever read! Geez. At least copy them and move them to CG or something.

	16-05-2002 04:50									#69
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I am most happy with the outcome of this election. HURRAY!

For the record: I have voted SP, the most left-wing party. I will probably NEVER vote CDA, and have in the past voted D'66 or GroenLinks.

But the incompetent, regent-minded, hypocritical, shifty social-democratic party (PvdA) has been thrashed. They have consistently denied all true problems like WAO(incapacity for work) or integration policy. And its sneaky party leader -who disarmed all independent minds like van Gijzel- has been hissed down.
The only positive thing one could say about our last government, Kok II, is its sound financial and economic policy.

For Dutch readers a quote from NRC Handelsblad -an excellent article- to show the deplorable condition of Dutch democracy:

"Ook in het parlement, zegt Hans Daudt, zitten geen gekozen vertegenwoordigers van het volk meer, maar benoemde mensen. Ze zien het Kamerwerk als opstapje naar een baan in het openbaar bestuur. En ja, daar moet je helaas vier jaar de politiek voor in. Die banen zijn in overvloed te vergeven -alle politieke partijen willen dezer dagen in alle regionen van het openbaar bestuur 'hun mannetje' hebben zitten. Dat is, zegt Hans Daudt, het handjeklap van de regenten. En als ze onderling een conflict hebben, wordt er iemand uit hun eigen Haagse regentenkring benoemd om, à la de VVD'er Henk Koning, een geruststellend flutrapport te schrijven over handel en wandel van PvdA-leider Ad Melkert, of om à la de PvdA'er Van Kemenade, met gezag te liegen over de toestand bij het Defensie van VVD-minister De Grave. Zo iemand heet dan een wijze man. Hans Daudt: Wijze mannen komen in Nederland nooit van buiten de politieke kaste."

"Alsof de politieke partijen nog vertegenwoordigers zijn van geestesstromingen! Uit begrijpelijk lijfsbehoud houdt Den Haag vast aan het denkbeeld dat de verschillen zoals die in het parlement tot uiting komen, synoniem zijn met de maatschappelijke tegenstellingen zoals die buiten het parlement beleefd worden. Dat is allang niet meer zo. In de rest van het land is Den Haag: 'de politiek', een wereld waarin de onderlinge verschillen met het blote oog niet waarneembaar zijn. De Leidse politicoloog Peter Mair spreekt, met een variant op Arend Lijphart, zelfs van een 'karteldemocratie'. Hij ziet de partijen, gezamenlijk en in vereniging, als een gesloten kartel. Naar buiten toe ontlenen ze hun identiteit aan de minieme onderlinge verschillen. Naar binnen toe hebben ze, in gedeeld belang, met elkaar het openbaar bestuur in een houdgreep genomen. Ankersmit in Groningen: 'Samen vormen ze een groep mensen die het openbaar bestuur voor zichzelf reserveert. Onderling verdelen ze de buit.' Volgens hem zijn de partijen 'elkaars deelgenoot in een pervers bondgenoot schap'."
(source: 'M', magazine van NRC Handelsblad, 4 mei 2002, pagina 30-44; artikel 'De illusie van democratie' door G.van Westerloo)

	16-05-2002 06:04									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I take it, faded glory, that one cannot totally agree with everything a major U.S. party stands for without being totally confused! Ned

Yes it is. Its wierd to see all the ideologies lumped into one party. They seem to all have there own clique's within the party. The only reason they dont form coalitions/seperate parties is fear that the other side would win.

	16-05-2002 09:36									#71
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Ha! Thats why I say Christians are the bigger danger to liberal rights than Muslims (cose they win votes)

But oh well, I doubt they could get any majority in parlament for their weird ideas

I guess the LPF will fall apart soon. Some new elections being held in a couple of month, and everything will be fine... I hope ...

	16-05-2002 10:23									#72
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Yes it is. Its wierd to see all the ideologies lumped into one party. They seem to all have there own clique's within the party. The only reason they dont form coalitions/seperate parties is fear that the other side would win.

Actually, we have had a lot of third party movements in the last 30+years that have take one interest group or another out from the major parties. Arguably, these third party movements cost a major party candidate the election because we do not have a run-off like they do elsewhere.

Ned