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Ralf
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Sweden
Mar 2000
time: 06:12
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I generally liked the idea of partisan-units in Civ-2, but I didnt like how they where implemented. Any ideas how to tweak and change this unit?
The way I see it, those partisan-units should NOT appear all at once directly after city-captures. Thats too obvious. Instead they should pop-up one by one, here and there within conquered city-areas concentrating on pillaging shields, roads and RR. However they can only pillage the next-coming turn, and they are not so many as they where in Civ-2. Special abilities:
- treats all non-RR terrain as roads.
- No zone-restrictions, of course.
- New abilities: No automatic map-recentering on these units. Be alert!
- A partisan-unit must be killed completely. Only wounded partisans disapperars and come back again healed.
Last edited by Ralf on 04-06-2001 at 13:10
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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:12
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Guerilla warfare is a form of warfare that some people just don't understand. In true Guerilla Warfare, you wouldn't have a "partisan" unit running around. A true guerilla unit would be able to hide in a tile unvisible to an army. Also, sharing a tile with an enemy unit, and holding surprise attacks. In Civ games there can't be a Vietnam war because you can land ten tanks on a jungle area, and just obliterate all partisan units. In Vietname, the US landed the equivelant of ten tanks and still couldn't flush out the Viet Cong because they burrowed in and hid so well.
Did you know in Vietnam, the US dropped more bombs on that small country than all the previous wars combined?
Ralf, you need to let go of the past CIV games if you want an improved realistic game. The earlier civ games were good building blocks, but its time to move to the next level.
Partisans aren't organized armies, they are small groups of soldiers who surprise-attack forces occupying their territory. My grandfather was a partisan in the hills of Italy during WWII and he fought Nazi and Italian troops. Basically, they saw troops in transit, attacked quickly, then ran back into the forests and hills and hid. That's guerilla warfare.
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Mathphysto
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East Brunswick, NJ, USA
May 2001
time: 05:12
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I think both ajbera and Lawrence have good ideas. Maybe a city with higher culture rating experiences increased levels of corruption and some probability per turn of production, units, and city resources being sabotaged. The corruption and sabotage levels would decrease with increased military presence, or if the conquering Civ patches up relations with the offended Civ. Also, as time went on, the sabotage and corruption levels would drop.
This way, partisans are discrete and unavoidable - like real life. You can't just mop them up with tanks, like in Civ2. But, the partisan spirit also dies down - either by force (increased military presence) or by choice (peace treaty between Civs, and time heals the wounds). There may be other factors to either refire or extinguish the partisan spirit, but I think that these may be the primaries.
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Ralf
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Sweden
Mar 2000
time: 06:12
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quote:
Ralf, you need to let go of the past CIV games if you want an improved realistic game. The earlier civ games were good building blocks, but its time to move to the next level.
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OK, then - any good ideas of your own? Remember that Civ-3 is a computer-game played on a very abstracted level. How shall a partisan-unit be tweaked to be "real-life realistic" in a turnbased game, like Civ-3?
By the way, its have already been 100% confirmed that Civ-3 will be turnbased Civ-2/SMAC style - so discussing ideas based on alternative models is basically a waste of time. Now, with this in mind; again - how can the Civ-3 partisan-unit be tweaked and improved according to you?
Or shall we, as Ajbera suggest, NOT have partisan forces characterized as units at all? There have previously been talks in this forum about having spy-functions attached to some spy/intelligence-screen, instead of a spy-unit. Maybe the partisan sabotage-function can be incorporated under this screen spy/intelligence-screen also?
[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 12, 2001).]
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Theben
There should be an option in either the diplomacy or espionage screen to fund partisan warfare in another country, whether units or automatic. |
Yes!!
In WW2, partisans in France were almost inexistant, or at least very badly organized in 1940-41, they began causing some trouble in 42 and were more serious in 44, mainly because England gave them a headquarters and a leader was sent to organize them, but also because the difference in culture between democratic France and nazi didn't show up immediately. The atrocities performed slowly turned passive people into partisans.
Thus, you should be able to "pay" people to rebel in other cities (like what existed in Master Of Orion): more discontent, inability to build military units because of too many people complaining, and maybe also automatic sabotage of roads/production.
Also, it should be noted that Paris was not freed by the Allies but by itself, so, if the conquering civ is suffering drawbacks, conquered cities should be able to revolt by themselves/funding from other countries.
I think partisans shouldn't be modeled as units because it's very hard to model these revolutions with units, since the units should disappear once the town is freed.
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12-05-2001 16:41
) would suffer automatic damage each turn. The idea could also be expanded upon to include automatic pillaging of roads and railroads (this feature would only apply if enemy had already captured that territory completely - ie. it is now within his borders) if there isn't a unit stationed on the tile.
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