17-05-2002 04:44									#1
	Mod idea: The Double-move mod Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hi guys,

I had an idea for a mod that could make for interesting gameplay. In this mod, the movement rate for most units is doubled. This will make gameplay faster paced, and will also emphasise the differences in the movement points required to move through different terrain.

A few units create problems with this mod idea and this is what I would like to discuss.

Problem units:

* Galley - A galley that can move 6 squares would have a much greater capacity to cross oceans, and this is not desirable. The solution that I feel would be the best would be to spread the movement speeds of the naval units out over a greater range, so that Galleys move 3 squares and Battleships move 12.

* Modern armor - This unit can attack multiple times in a turn, and giving this unit a potential 6 attacks a turn would be devastating to game balance. I feel that the best solution is to increase the production cost of this unit by 50% to 100%.

I would also like to know if anyone else has tried a mod like this, and if so, what the effects were and any other problem units that were found.

	17-05-2002 11:38									#2
	Remove this text

I have tried a couple versions on this, but never a full game. A few thoughts:

-Cultural boundaries. It's not a good thing when your cavalry positioned on the edge of an enemy's territory can attack two cities deep in a single turn. Cultural boundaries really need to expand faster, unless you REALLY want to speed up the rate of gameplay (my motivation was a matter of decreasing the scale, not making things progress faster, although I was certainly aware that this would).

-World size: I like this idea a lot better for larger worlds, for obvious reasons. If you want the game to go by VERY quickly, you could do it on a default Tiny map, but I prefer doing it on 120x120 at a minimum.

-Naval movement: The latest patch allows you to assign functioning movement point costs for different ocean terrain types; you can increase the cost of ocean tiles, and either give modern ships staggering amounts of movement, or else enabled "all terrain as roads" for them (allowing them to move over ocean, sea, and coast at the same rate). I do prefer faster ships anyway, though; I don't like waiting a decade for my carriers to get across the ocean.

-Movement tweaking: One of the effects of using a larger base for movement points is that it allows for much finer distinctions. You couldn't assign a unit to have 1.5 or 2.5 moves... but if you're using double movement as a base, you can have the same effect by assigning a unit 3 or 5 moves. This can be useful if you feel that units such as the Rider, Jaguar Warrior, and Cavalry just move too fast, and means you can make marines and paratroopers into movement 3 "fast infantry", not as fast as cavalry or tanks but faster than other footsoldiers.

-Bombard ranges: Try starting at 2 for the catapult and increasing range by 1 for each upgrade thereafter; artillery with a range of four is delightfully fun, and I feel giddy thinking about radar artillery with a range of 5 (though I've never played one of these mods out that far; heck, I rarely do in regular games either!) Cruise missiles should also have their range increased more than the standard 2x, up to at least 6 or possibly 8.

-Operational range: Sadly, air power is considerably less useful under this scheme, due to that irritating hardcoded limit on operational range.

-Blitz: I just took it out for everything, but here's a thought: leave blitz on for armies. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if blitz actually functions for armies (some other special abilities such as ZOC don't, because they apply to the army and not the units inside; an army's ZOC attack consists of the leader raising his arm and calling "Ho!", but does no damage since the army unit itself has no attack value); I prefer armies for defensive purposes. But anyways, since quite a few people seem to think armies are worthless (and definitely not without reason), might as well beef them up. It's ridiculous to have a single modern armor unit attacking 6 times a turn, but 3 or 4 modern armor in an army gettings 6 attacks isn't bad at all, and could turn offensive armies into truly terrifying forces.

	17-05-2002 20:33									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Don't do it.

First of all, it effectively removes the "retreat" option since every unit would now be considered a "fast" unit. That makes cavalry and tanks much weaker in that regard.

As Random pointed out, it makes it far too easy to attack several cities deep, except that you can already do that. Once I reach the Industrial Era, my attacks go like this:
> Cavalry strike from my side of the border to hit an enemy city
> Workers build a railroad up to the newly-captured city and forward to the border
> Repeat
I can get 5-6 cities in one turn this way, several layers deep. Now, imagine what it'd be like if I had a blitzing Modern Armor do this AND get three extra attacks in. The war would be over on the first turn.

The same logic applies to increasing bombardment ranges; you can keep your artillery inside your own cities, safe from counterattack, and shell a city across the border. That's just unbalanced.

Naval units SHOULD be sped up slightly, and I've done this myself, but it's a lot more complicated for land units.

	17-05-2002 20:55									#4
	Put an end to popups!

Yes - I doubled the movement of most of the naval units, but I think land units should be left alone.

	17-05-2002 22:02									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I like that idea of making different squares cost different amounts, and giving ocean going vessels the explorer ability. After I try my ranged unit mod, I just might try faster ships and slower ocean movement.

	18-05-2002 00:00									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

Oh yeah, I forgot about the retreat effect; that makes this an even better idea! Cavalry, at least, is screwy anyways; it's absurdly powerful on the offensive, although I'd much rather see retreat stay in and simply reduce their attacking strength relative to contemporary units, but cavalry are just too good as it stands. Tanks are just as bad, but it makes a bit more sense that they should dominate, and the mech infantry wall hits a bit harder since there's no contemporary artillery that can really deal with them effectively, whereas with infantry you get artillery right then.

There is the issue of AI effectiveness, though, since the whole idea behind reducing the proportionate strength of the fast offensive units is to put greater emphasis on artillery, which the AI isn't a fan of. I wonder what would happen if you set artillery to build often for a few civs...

	23-05-2002 11:18									#7
	Got spare money?

Another idea I have had is to multiply the movements of units by 1.5, then round the halves in whatever direction I felt was most appropriate for each unit. Move-1 units would then have 1 or 2 movement, move-2 units would have 3 movement, move-3 units would have 4 or 5 movement.

The most important units to balance correctly are the offensive units, because these could become immensely powerful. For defensive units it's less of a problem, because these would spend most of their time fortified in cities and they don't move much.