17-05-2002 13:15									#1
	Barbarians and Money? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If I give the barbarians a good sum of money, say around 2000 or so (w/civtweak), will they ever use it to rush-buy units at any of their cities? Or will they just hold on to it?

	17-05-2002 18:29									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

they never use money for rushbuilding a unit. If they have money, they will waste it to get ..... nothing.
Only effect, money increases costs for bribing barb cities.

	17-05-2002 20:21									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Out of curiosity, how do you give money to barbarians? They don't appear on the list of options for the change money function in the chaet menu. Granted if you are playing the barbarians and kill off all the other civilizations you can cheat yourself money, because thebarbarians are the only ones left to give money to, but in that case the civilizations are dead and not coming back, so what's the point?

Lucius Alexander

Palindromedary Enterprises

	17-05-2002 20:43									#4
	Got spare money?

You need a utillity called Civ Tweak - Most good Civ II Websites have it for download. Mine does not as of yet.

	17-05-2002 21:30									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, barbarians have no real use for money. Giving it to them will do nothing, and I think I remember it is reset to 0 anyway after a few turns.
It's the same thing as giving barbarians more technologies (by hex-editing). You'd think it would allow them better units, but they will continue building bad units anyway, and will lose their new techs.

	18-05-2002 05:43									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Thanks, Allard. I'll watch during my playtesting of the thing to see whether or not they actually do keep the cash. The idea was to give the barbs a good amount of money so that when players seize barb cities, there would be a cash reward. As it was, they got 0 money for taking a barb city. I had no idea the amount would revert to 0, but I'll check it to see what happens.

Lucius; what Jake said. Civtweak allows one to set cash totals and governments for barbs.

	18-05-2002 11:07									#7
	Remove this text

If they barbs are going to lose their treasury every few turns, and you are somewhat able to calculate when this goes down, you could simply use a turninterval even to give money to the barbs. This would ensure that they at least have the 2,000 you wanted them to have in the first place, even if they magically lose all of their funds.



@IF
TURNINTERVAL
interval=3 (or whatever you discover)
@THEN
CHANGEMONEY
receiver=Barbarians (or whatever they are named)
amount=2000
@ENDIF


Hope that is of help, Exile.

-FMK.

Last edited by Field Marshal Klesh on 18-05-2002 at 11:27

	18-05-2002 11:50									#8
	Tired of ads?

actually I dont think you can give barbs money by event, what you can do is change thier govt to fundamentalism, which will make sure they've allways got some money (atleast this will make units thougher to bribe, I would guess it also makes the cities yield more treasure)

	18-05-2002 12:02									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Henrik actually I dont think you can give barbs money by event....

What makes you think this? Have you tried it H?


Seriously though, you are allowed to create units for them, so why not give them cash? You are allowed to ally the Barbs with Civs in the editor (or was it a utility?) so can you alter their treaty status via evet too, or no? I guess i have to read the 'Barbarian Paper' to see if this is all covered there. Would be interesting to have a list of doable things...

-FMK

	18-05-2002 12:25									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh What makes you think this? Have you tried it H?

Yes...

You cannot affect barbarian treaties via events either.

	18-05-2002 12:33									#11
	Geez, Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Always with the negative waves Moriarty...

Woof!





-FMK.

	18-05-2002 15:59									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Okay, where do I download civtweak?

Lucius Alexander

Palindromedary Enterprises. Not affiliated with Enron. We don't even KNOW those people.

	19-05-2002 12:14									#14
	Here. Support Apolyton

Carl's Scenarios for Civ2.

http://users.stargate.net/~harden/index.html

	19-05-2002 13:11									#15
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Already got it off the Apolyton downloads site, along with a bunch of other stuff. Apolyton is great!

It's useful, but there are things it doesn't do. You still can't incorporate barbarians in events, such as to give them money. You can't make treaties or alliances unless you are actually playing the barbarians, and then you get an alliance only if the AI playing a civ wants one.

Lucius Alexander

Palindromedary Enterprises. Not affiliated with Enron. And you won't catch US abusing power and political influence. (Palindromedary Enterprises HAS no power or influence....)

	19-05-2002 18:59									#16
	Civtweak Increase Your PM Length

The barbarian money thing was not part of the original CivTweak. I added it by popular request. Subsequently I have come to believe that giving barbarians money via CivTweak has little effect on the game. The only effect would be that for the first few turns of the game, barbarian cities would be more costly to bribe. Barbarian cash seems to get flushed down the toilet.

Weighing in on a point already covered, I think giving money to barbarians by event does not work. The event goes off just fine, but the barbarian cash does not increase, so it's merely a waste of an event. Event triggers and actions dealing with technlogy and cash seem to have no effect whatsoever. The only event action that I am sure works for barbarians is createunit and that's the only only I use regarding barbarians.

	19-05-2002 19:22									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

When playing barbarians, cash seems to accumulate normally, but knowledge is certainly flushed. You just can't teach a barbarian anything. Give him a scroll of ancient knowledge and he uses it to wipe his....never mind.

Lucius Alexander

Implied by absence....

	19-05-2002 22:20									#18
	Not true. Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Barbarians DO accumulate beakers and WILL gain techs, if they have enough cities. Trading with them helps. I have seen the in-game announcements with my own eyes. It does happen.

	19-05-2002 23:14									#19
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I too have seen the messages such as "Barbarians discover Ceremonial Burial", (happens if you have U.N. or Marco Polo), but I don't believe it does them any good. They don't build improvements or new types of units.

	19-05-2002 23:49									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

At the very time you hit OK when you see a barbarian gains tech popup, the knowladge is lost for the barbs.

They do gain techs but they lose them at the exact same time as they get them.

	20-05-2002 07:57									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have seen ''Barbarian develop Bronze Working'' pop up several time in a single game. This seems to support the theroy that they forget what they learn instantly.

	21-05-2002 12:04									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Exile The idea was to give the barbs a good amount of money so that when players seize barb cities, there would be a cash reward. As it was, they got 0 money for taking a barb city.

Exile, can't you just use an event to give money to the civ taking a city from the barbs???

So you don't need the barbs to have any money at any time, as long as the "invader" has it in the end... Just short-cut the middle-man...

	21-05-2002 12:36									#23
	My Events file . . . Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

is absolutely full. I can't squeeze even one more event in there. I do wish that there was some way to expand the events file.

I need about 10 times the space that is in it. But even 3 or 4 times the normal space would help.

And NO, I don't know the first thing about hex-editing, whatever that is.

	21-05-2002 18:31									#24
	Re: My Events file . . . Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Exile And NO, I don't know the first thing about hex-editing, whatever that is.

I don't belive the Barbarians are able to spend money and hex editing this would be a waste of time. Yet hex editing is something that I had been fooling around with and, inspite of feeling my way in the dark, I was getting pretty successful at it. Unfortunately, my shareware hex-editor expired and I have not downloaded another. Get Allard's (I THINK Allard wrote it) document on Hex Editing and a good editor and it is not so hard if you have any computer skills at all. I'm gonna bump my old thread about this with another question.

	21-05-2002 21:31									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Even assuming plenty of room in the events file, if what you want is to give someone money from conquering a barbarian city, that won't necessarily cut it. Unless you have certain barbarian controlled cities at start, and you can attach events to them, but if you want the barbarians to be able to take a city, then someone else takes it from them and gets money....you'd need a seperate event for each city, and what about cities built after the scenario starts? One thing you could do, but it would eat up a lot of event space, is tie an event to each unit possible for barbarians, giving triggerdefender money when the defender is a barbarian and the unit is killed...if there is one thing barbarians are good at it is getting killed and this is the only gauranteed income I can imagine for them. It just might keep their coffers full enough to A) make them harder to bribe and B) give you a big bonus when you take a city from them.

Lucius Alexander

Palindromedary Enterprises