18-05-2002 01:28									#1
	The least useful improvement Got spare money?

Reading the thread granaries and barracks by Ramses II., and following STYOM's idea I ask you the question what is your least favorite improvement, the one you never build. I vote for the powerplant, it brings pollution and I always prefer to wait and build a cleaner power station (nuclear or hydro or of course Hoover)
So, it's powerplant : 1
Your opinion now please

Last edited by Julius Brenzaida on 18-05-2002 at 01:35

	18-05-2002 01:44									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Thanks for backing me on this question, Julius. Maybe I'll learn something in this thread.

When I originally posted, I was thinking Power Plants were #1 on the useless list, for the reasons you gave. But I had forgotten about the Courthouse. I NEVER build those. I suppose I might, if I had a big, productive city far away from my capital (from a hut?) early in the game. But, I'm usually in a government with no corruption, or little corruption, soon enough than Courthouses are never needed. And in SP, bribing is so rare that this isn't a reason for Courthouses either.

Any thoughts? Gimme a reason to build one!



STYOM

	18-05-2002 02:14									#3
	Remove this text

For us: Police Stations we have never built one - and that's from the both of us.

now courthouses - try playing a scenario like Rome or Hellanistic Age - you NEED them when you cannot change your government

now nearly poured into the second bottle and thinking about #3

	18-05-2002 02:19									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

well you get an extra happy citizen from a courthouse under Democracy.Not much but something anyways.They should be 40 sheilds and no upkeep.

In all the years I have only ever built just 1 NUCLEAR power plant.I've built lots of PPs in OCC and multiplay but never a nuker.

Never built a police station either.The last thing you are worried about at that point is 2 unhappys from a unit

	18-05-2002 03:35									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i have to echo the sentiments of the above posters..police stations...what a waste of time...... but they rank up their with granaries.....i usually capture or build the pyramids on the way to victory anyways

	18-05-2002 07:01									#6
	Support Apolyton

I've built granaries from time to time in cities with ssllloooww growth and special terrain I want to use. But not often.

The NUCLEAR PLANT is by far the most worthless improvement. I've never built one, and never will. I've never peeked into an AI city and seen one, either.

I don't think I've ever built any power plant except hydro. Maybe a solar or two, but that's it.

	18-05-2002 07:29									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Police Station(I prefer commie)
Nuclear and ordinary power plants(I just about always get Hoover)
and every building that you get free from a wonder

	18-05-2002 15:18									#8
	Tired of ads?

let's see:

• police station (always seem to have women suffrage before I even think of them)
  
• courthouse (except in my attempt game, almost never)
  
• some of those plants(my science really moves way to fast )
  

Shade

	18-05-2002 16:41									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Patashu Police Station(I prefer commie) Nuclear and ordinary power plants(I just about always get Hoover) and every building that you get free from a wonder

My thought exactly

	18-05-2002 19:01									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I guess power plants and some other improvements that expire when building wonders (granaries and such).

	18-05-2002 21:00									#11
	Tired of ads?

after years of playing the ww2 scenario i've grown to love police stations in republics, but otherwise they're pretty useless... courthouses are too expensive to be good early on... and usually by the time i can afford them i'm in commie or something... nuclear power plants, only built 1 ever and it blew up haha... solar plants too, very rarely use them

	19-05-2002 00:38									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I have only ever played SP 2.42. Against humans things would not always fall my way, WOW-wise, making for a different necessity. Apart from the previously mentioned Plants and Police Station, I can't recall building a cathedral, Mike's being so central to my game.

I happen to like Courthouses. They can be as important as a trade route in reclaiming arrows lost to corruption, and the one or two shields you don't lose each turn everafter really add up over time. Ten shields each turn are so much more pleasing than nine.

	19-05-2002 01:27									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm pretty sure I've never built a police station and probably never will; but I'm absolutely sure I've NEVER built capitalization. Spend 600 shields to get 1 gp/turn instead of 1 shield/turn? Maybe somebody can explain why that would ever be worthwhile. Or maybe it doesn't really do what the Civilopedia says it does?

I never build SAM batteries; fighters usually provide much stronger protection, can move from place to place, can shoot down nearby bombers, can act as scouts, can escort ground units through zone of control....

Since I don't usually build many ships, I never build port facilities.

In SP with more than a few cities:

If you're not in a position to build Hoover Dam rather than relying on any kind of power plants, you're probably going to lose. Hoover Dam also makes recycling centers pretty unimportant.

If you can't get Michelangelo's Chapel instead of building cathedrals, you're going to have a pretty rough time.

If you really want granaries, just get Pyramids instead.

If you want research laboratories, build SETI instead.

I rarely find city walls to be needed. Likewise, if you need more than one or two coastal fortresses, you're probably in pretty bad shape overall.

Nowadays I rarely reach a point in the game where airports, manufacturing plants, SDI, or even superhighways pay off. If I haven't wiped out the AI by the time they're available, I do soon after. If you're still in serious competition at that point, though, these are important improvements.

I build courthouses not infrequently. I spend a lot of time in republic, and the corruption reduction can be substantial. Then if I go into democracy, the extra happy face from the courthouse may be what I need for the city to celebrate.

	19-05-2002 10:45									#14
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by debeest but I'm absolutely sure I've NEVER built capitalization. Spend 600 shields to get 1 gp/turn instead of 1 shield/turn? Maybe somebody can explain why that would ever be worthwhile. Or maybe it doesn't really do what the Civilopedia says it does? I build courthouses not infrequently. I spend a lot of time in republic, and the corruption reduction can be substantial. Then if I go into democracy, the extra happy face from the courthouse may be what I need for the city to celebrate.

Capitalization simply converts the excess shields the city produces into coins. It's never 'built' - just set production and the next turn, you add coins to the treasury instead of shields to the production box. I never build it, except in the late stages of the game when I can't be bothered to build caravans (I prefer caravans for the science bonus) ... it's handy for when you have a lot of cities and don't need anything built. Saves managing new units every turn or 2.

I tend to get to Demo fairly fast from Republic. Or maybe, I take too long getting to Republic? Nonetheless, I should probably compare the trade bonus from a Caravan vs. corruption savings from Courthouse...

STYOM

	19-05-2002 12:26									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by shade let's see: police station (always seem to have women suffrage before I even think of them) courthouse (except in my attempt game, almost never) some of those plants(my science really moves way to fast ) Shade

Kinda sums up my thoughts also.

RAH

	20-05-2002 00:42									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I never build a palace.(only once when barbs destroyed it).
Courthouse lets you celebrate under democracy if you don't get hanging gardens. I never build nuclear plants either.

	20-05-2002 03:46									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I seldom build granaries. Onlx once in a game I build some and the others were surprised by my huge population.

Some days ago it was the first time, I built Nuclear Plants. It was an OCC.

And I never ever built a Palace and as far as I remember I didn't build a Police Station.

	20-05-2002 04:37									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I rarely build any of the improvements which have a Wonder replacement, Port Facilities (I rarely build fleets), SDI's (no need to without nukes), Courthouses and Colosseums (the last two are really only needed in the end-game to ensure WLT_D and more happy faces for a higher score)... But then again, I only play SP on the medium difficulty levels.
Because of the unfair competition of the worst improvements with the better Wonders (perhaps the wonders should actually be considered as an instance of the improvement in this discussion), I'd say the Courthouse is worst.

	20-05-2002 08:00									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by geofelt I never build a palace.(only once when barbs destroyed it).

	20-05-2002 09:25									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by debeest If you want research laboratories, build SETI instead.

I forgot about those. Right up there with nuclear plants, then.

I like courthouses - lower corruption, then a happy face in democracy. Good return, imho.

	20-05-2002 14:07									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yup - courthouses are seriously good news ...

SG[1]

	20-05-2002 16:52									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Actually I only build Courthouses´in a democracy but they're definitely not worst.
Only once SDI was necessary - now I'm landing on AC when the AI is still researching nuclear theorie.

	20-05-2002 16:58									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

In my limited experience I've found no real benefit from the following --

Nuclear power plant
Police station
Capitalization

In addition, since I learned to celebrate, I've never again bought a granary.

But relative to most posters here, I'm a complete tyro, so what do I know?

	20-05-2002 17:02									#24
	WOW! Full PM-box? Change here!

No police and rarely cathedrals.
Seldom SAMs and ...never built a science lab.

	21-05-2002 12:18									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't think it's fair to count cathedrals, power plants, etc., because I would build those if I didn't get the Wonders that provide them automatically. And I do tend to build courthouses after I get Adam Smith.

So I've got to go with police stations. I never go for Women's Sufferage, either. If I'm a democracy, I don't warmonger; if I'm a war-mongerer, I don't handicap myself by staying in democracy. And if, as a democracy, I need troops in the field at that point, it's just easier to have my SSC support them, since it has Shakespeare's in it.

	21-05-2002 18:11									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Power plants I built once just to see what they looked like 'cause I realized after three years I had never built one...

Collossea (sp? It doesn't look right) are the last improvements I ever build though.

	28-05-2002 01:09									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Granaries and SAMs.

Carolus

	29-05-2002 10:05									#28
	Increase the size of your Attachments

port authority is useless. Who needs vet ships.

My navy is transports...