18-05-2002 06:48									#1
	Our World in 1520 AD Inflate your Upload Space

The Tale of the Years - 1400 AD to 1520 AD

1400 - Move 2 Caravans to closest Trimerene pick-up point near Balsindia. Demand that India remove its troops from near Shade. They do. Realize there is a quicker path to Democracy; I convert some inefficient Workers to Scientists and reduce the research rate for techs from 9 to 7! Also, slightly better path for Caravan transport to Apolyton found (roads aren't always the fastest travel). Move a Crusader to a pick-up point near Balsindia.

1420 - Move Trimerene out of Nalduria toward the 2 Caravans. Move Trimerene near Heliopolis and disembark Crusader. There is an Egyptian Crusader on the Pheasant and we kill it. I click on our Crusader again to prevent it from moving onto the Pheasant (there's a Catapault somewhere nearby). Disembark Musketeer to Forest next to Heliopolis. The SMC battle plan is in operation! Apolyton completes Collosseum and starts KRC Wonder. If I have counted the shield production right, this will work perfectly…

1440 - Romans discover Bridge-Building. Trimerene picks up 2 Caravans near Balsindia and heads straight for Apolyton. Paha Caravans heads for Apolyton. Umbra Caravan moves towards pick-up point near Balsindia. Move Trimerene to developed terrain NE Heliopolis. We discover Philadelphia (American)! Hmm, isn't Boston the 2nd American city? Means they have at least 3 cities, I think. Move vet Crusader in Shade toward Heliopolis. Fortify Musketeer next to Heliopolis.

1460 - Oh No! Heliopolis attacks and kills fortified Musketeer in Forest. Curse their evil souls! We lose Musketeer and Crusader… Cartheginian Trimerene attacks our Trimerene NE of Brandenberg, and dies. We are not even wounded. Rush Temple in Shade and City Walls in Darkness. I need production of units close to the battlefront. Move Trimerene near Heliopolis and disembark Crusader and Musketeer 1 square NW of that Forest square. We need more troops for this attack. Maybe I can lure some out and kill them.

1480 - Start Crusaders in Darkness and Shade. Nova Hispania builds Collosseum and starts a Crusader. Moving Triremes back to mainland for pick-ups. Pick up Crusader near Balsindia.

1500 - Americans discover Navigation, and move Catapault onto Forest square near Heliopolis and offer cease-fire. I tell them no as I don't want that Catapault to stay there and block us.Carthaginians and Romans at War! Brandenberg completes Temple and starts Crusader (they need an offensive unit).

We discover Democracy and start researching Explosives! I change Apolyton to SoL and use/move Caravans to help build Wonder. It leaves 10 shields required which is exactly what Apolyton produces. Perfect! Get a Diplomat and the Umbra Salt Caravan on same Trireme and they head for Washington for Trade and Embassy. I kill the American Catapault using Crusader. He nearly dies, but doesn't get Vet status. Darn! I up the Luxury rate to 30% and go into Revolution to use SoL. Rush Temples in Babar, Dortmund and Light (total 102 gold) as they would Revolt anyway.

1510 - Romans get Monarchy from the Babylonians. The rushed Temple in Light is not sufficient and they Revolt anyway. I convert a Worker to Entertainer. Apolyton builds SoL and starts a Crusader. We are a Communist government now! I change Science rate to 80% and Tax to 20% Corruption vanishes. We are both rich and productive! Tech rate is down to 5 turns. Barbs are near kIndalia and a Settler is at risk. Since it is irrigating, I can't move him. I rushbuild a Crusader in kIndalia.

1520 - The Indian government is overthrown. Going to Monarchy, I presume. 2 Barb Elephants attack kIndalia (not Settler, whew) and die. Sodaq builds Collosseum and starts a Caravan. The new Crusader at kIndalia barely reaches the Barb Leader and attacks (1/3 strength). We get 150 gold for killing the Barb Leader (wimp). I rush a Crusader in Darkness, as they were about to grow and I feared a Revolt.

The Romans and Indians both have Bridge-Building, and I want it. But the Romans demand 490 gold, and the Indians want Gunpowder. No trade!


Screenshots to follow, but may take an hour or so...

	18-05-2002 07:14									#2
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Power to the Proletariat, Glory to the Politburo!

*waves little soviet flag*

We must rename the High Council to Politburo, change the name of our nation to something more communist sounding too.

	18-05-2002 08:03									#3
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great! ups and downs but there was nothing you couldve done about any of the downs

	18-05-2002 08:12									#4
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Cities1520AD:

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	18-05-2002 08:13									#5
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Defense1520AD:

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	18-05-2002 08:15									#6
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Demographics1520AD:

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	18-05-2002 08:16									#7
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Foreign1520AD:

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	18-05-2002 08:19									#8
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TaxRate1520AD:

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	18-05-2002 08:21									#9
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Tech1520AD:

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	18-05-2002 08:22									#10
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Trade1520AD:

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	18-05-2002 08:24									#11
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South View 1520AD:

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	18-05-2002 08:27									#12
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TriremeFleet1520AD:

1 = Diplomat and Salt Caravan going to Washington
2 = 2 Crusaders going to Shade (or thereabouts)
3 = Triremes going to pick up Crusaders (and a Settler)

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	18-05-2002 08:29									#13
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Citadel1520AD (hemming the Romans in):

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	18-05-2002 08:31									#14
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Powergraph1520AD:

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	18-05-2002 08:32									#15
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The most recent Wonders - 1520AD:

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	18-05-2002 09:03									#16
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Well, there are the screenshots.

Some random thoughts:

I'm really sorry about losing that Musketeer and Crusader at Heliopolis. I stacked them because I didn't want to risk being bribed, and I thought a fortified Musketeer in a Forest was pretty safe. I'll have to get a Diplomat down there to see what they've got. A Catapault and 2 Phalanxes, probably, but they have Monotheism and Crusaders now, so it might have been a Crusader, too. It's too bad the attack didn't work out.

Now that we are free of corruption, Marketplaces and even Banks will be worthwhile to build. I have a good number of new Crusaders being built (7 in production), so we should be able to lsunch a really effective attack soon. It might be worth approaching Heliopolis from the South where there is a plain to land on (to attack on the second move). The Forrest and Hills elsewhere limit our movement. It might even be worth establishing a city at 75,81 to speed transport.

Many of our cities are size 6, 7 or 8. We need to decide if we want to build Aqueducts to help them grow larger or if we want to just focus on shield production. And if we decide the latter, than we really need to trade for or steal Bridge-Building (that will help production in many cities).

We will have Explosives in 3 or 4 turns and that will upgrade our Settlers to Engineers. It will help our production to use some of them to mine hills. Should we terraform or should we found new cities? We have a good fleet of Triremes to move them around.

We need to consider carefully the next techs to discover or steal. The Americans have Navigation, which means they can research Magellan's. I'd hate to not get that and the Americans seem to built large walled cities, so it might be difficult to take. We can probably research it and build Magellan's first, but it would be a major Project and we would have to start quickly. Superiority on the sea is important in this game.

Food for thought, for the Citizens and the Ministers...

	18-05-2002 10:23									#17
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My first thoughts upon reading these posts - before seeing the yet-to-be received savegame:

A turn full of action this time! And a tragedy for the new Peoples' Republic that so many of our brave comrades were ambushed so cowardly by the backwards Egyptian bourgeois hordes. We must not blame Comrade cavebear for events beyond his control - but instead prepare to exact revenge!

Now, to business. IIRC, we still have enough defenders in shade not to have to go into crisis mode yet. And look at Philly -
yikes! Size seven and walled - this may delay our plans to free the American working peoples after Egypt.

I recommend new cities instead of further overpopulating our existing cities. Large cities encourage wealth to be concentrated in the hands of few - where it is the workers of the world that should have the fruits of their labours. Furthermore, we get two squares of resources for each new city - and we no longer have to worry about the corruption of the Evil that was a non-Communist society! I see no reason now why we should not follow the establishments of new cities in all of Comrade CannonFodder's excellent recommendations.

We must put our citizens to work in the cities we have - and build the production infrastructure we need to create a military might in order to spread the red flag across the globe. Thus we need mines near our existing cities - priduction, not food must be our great priority.

To work, my comrades!

	18-05-2002 14:59									#18
	Great job Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

You have done very well.
we got Sol in the 6th turn as I predicted(depended all on the moment when to get Demo...good you could hurry it even 1 turn )

quote: I rush a Crusader in Darkness, as they were about to grow and I feared a Revolt.

We are communists aren't we?(don't know about MGE but civ 2.42 this means no possibility to revolt(or not that I have ever seen) )

About Heliopolis as you suggested maybe going around might be a good move but then at least send 2 triremes with crusaders.(so we can take out 4 units hopefully only 3 are in the city so we can conquer it)

looks like the AI has started his techexchangesessions==> steal and bribe all techs possible

quote: We need to consider carefully the next techs to discover or steal. The Americans have Navigation, which means they can research Magellan's. I'd hate to not get that

totally agree with that...try to get Navigation at all cost...I'll try to work something out to get enough caravans in place so we can build Magellan's expedition 1 turn later.

Very good random thoughts

Shade

	18-05-2002 17:58									#19
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conquer heliopolis the same way you conquer the actual shade,
take a trireme and a few crusaders

	18-05-2002 21:36									#20
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear ...It might be worth approaching Heliopolis from the South where there is a plain to land on (to attack on the second move). The Forrest and Hills elsewhere limit our movement. It might even be worth establishing a city at 75,81 to speed transport.

That will be the route to take to try a new assault. I will plan a new attack.

A musket in a forest still does not have good odds against a veteran catapult. It was a risk to take - if they lose their unit, we get the city; if we lose our unit, we get the city later.

	19-05-2002 18:44									#21
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quote: Originally posted by shade We are communists aren't we?(don't know about MGE but civ 2.42 this means no possibility to revolt(or not that I have ever seen) )

I'm not positive either. But I checked the Civiliopedia about Communism to refresh my memory when we became one. It mentioned that each military unit (up to 3) made *2* unhappy citizens content. That suggested to me that Revolt is still possible (though much less likely). I think only Fundamentalism is safe from Revolt.

	19-05-2002 19:22									#22
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear I'm not positive either. But I checked the Civiliopedia about Communism to refresh my memory when we became one. It mentioned that each military unit (up to 3) made *2* unhappy citizens content. That suggested to me that Revolt is still possible (though much less likely). I think only Fundamentalism is safe from Revolt.

Just remembered where the problem lies:
there is still a chance of revolt theoretically but what are the things that cause unhappiness?
--> distance to capîtal : (in communism there is no such thing all are treated equally)
--> number of cities (this is the disaster for most govt's but under demo the max number of cities before unhappiness is 255 )
--> units out city ( only for demo(and rep??))
--> other stuff (this only has a minor inpact and is the only this that causes communists to be unhappy)


Shade

	20-05-2002 17:28									#23
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Great job, Comrade President.

Q: Why are we building coliseums? Now that we're Commies, I don't see any benefit. Suggest we switch to conventional production-type improvements (library, marketplace) in those cities.

I can't rmember ever seeing a revolution under Commie, so we should also think about converting all thos Elvises to workers or scientists.

Also -- with Explosives coming, this would be a key moment in history to build more settlers -- Engineers at a bargain cost.

Of course, we must continue to build Many Crusaders for the Heliopolis campaign. Looking forward to seeing Plan B from the Marquis.

SoL = Well done!

	20-05-2002 18:42									#24
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Revolution is possible in Communism.

I went to one of my old games and found one where I was Communist. Selling the Collosseum and Temple got one city into revolt. In another, moving out the defenders did it. So, it is possible, but not too likely. It does mean that you have to watch your in-city defenders if you don't have happiness structures.

We are probably safe. We won't be emptying out the defenders from a city or selling the Temples, and we have Mike's, anyway.

I agree that the ongoing Collosseums should be converted to Marketplaces and Libraries. I trust the City-Planner will make detailed suggestions along that line.

As far as building Settlers quickly at bargain rates (to be upgraded to Engineers) goes... both cost 40 shields.

The only non-active Workers we have at the moment are all Scientists. There are no Entertainers.

	20-05-2002 18:44									#25
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit Also -- with Explosives coming, this would be a key moment in history to build more settlers -- Engineers at a bargain cost.

Actually, both settlers and engineers cost 40 shields. No build cost savings at all!

	20-05-2002 20:17									#26
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quote: ...both cost 40 shields.

OK so I'm an idiot.

* -Jrabbit wonders how many games he screwed up with unneeded settler rushbuilds. *

	20-05-2002 21:44									#27
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Under communism, the city improvements work the same as under anything else. Note: cathedrals are one less effective once we have discovered communism. The big difference between communism and monarchy is that martial law causes two unhappy citizens to become content, rather than one.

If you've ever played the WWII scenario as Russia on deity, then you should know that revolt IS possible, and likely, if you don't build the necessary improvements.

The only one safe from rioting is fundamentalism. Democracy and republic each experience problems with units away from a city (2 with democracy, 1 with republic, though the first unit away in republic doesn't count).

Just be careful and we'll do just fine. If anyone decides to go against us, just send them to the gulag!

	20-05-2002 23:49									#28
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit OK so I'm an idiot. * -Jrabbit wonders how many games he screwed up with unneeded settler rushbuilds. *

I seem to recall doing that a few times myself...

	22-05-2002 18:45									#29
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Revolution is possible in Communism. I went to one of my old games and found one where I was Communist. ..

I may confirm : city trouble is possible in Communism and martial law is very effiscient.
But that doesn't appear vith one unit in a size 4 city !
I've played games with revolts in communist cities, but they were large cities.
In any case, we have to keep temples, as we have Adam Smith's, but we must stop building more colliseum and change present productions to more usefull implements !

	22-05-2002 18:48									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq A musket in a forest still does not have good odds against a veteran catapult. It was a risk to take - if they lose their unit, we get the city; if we lose our unit, we get the city later.

Indeed, but not twice the same error : do attack by southern plains !