19-05-2002 01:41									#1
	Dissapointed with civ3, thinking about getting CTP2 Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

How does CTP2 compare to civ3? Does it have things like bombard, borders, etc? Is diplomacy better than civ3? Is it more aimed at fun and replay and less "dumbed down" for mass market than civ3 is? I played civ2 and thought it was great, but civ3 has no replay value for me, because the games seem to basic. Based on this would CTP2 probably be more fun for me?

	19-05-2002 03:20									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It depents on the mod you are use. In the game out of the box you will find a lot of flaws, like AI, diplomacy. If you use a mod like ApolytonPack, Cradle, MedPack, WaW or GoodMod, than CTP2 diplomacy can be compared to Civ3 one. (You don't have this AI tech exanging for example) Of course CTP2 diplomacy could be better but therefore Peter Triggs is already workink on a new diplomod, that will be than incorporated into all the mods I mentioned above when it is finished.

For your other questions CTP2 has bombard, borders, growing city cycles, PW, a message box. For me PW is the most improvement over this settler/worker system, you know the advantages of this terrain improving system if you ever managed 200 settlers every turn in Civ2. In CTP2 you have a message box were all the messages go instaed of popup messages so you only have to read the really important messages instead of all.

I can agree if you think Civ3 is too basic. You can't mod it really. CTP2 has a lot of new innovative features in comparision of Civ3. I already mentioned PW and the message box, to features that accelerate the game if you know how to use them. Actual this is the most dificuilt part to learn the interface of CTP2. CTP2 offers more techs espeacily future techs, why sould research and in the 80s of the last century. It has more governments, more trade goods, modded CTP2 has more city styles. You have speacal unit that can enslave your enemy settlers and enemy citizens, or do some frenshising.

OK back to the basic argument if you still think CTP2 out of the box is to basic (as I mentioned above I don't recommand this one, use at least one mod like ApolytonPack) than you can use a mod like Cradle, WaW, MedPack or GoodMod with new features, like the option of enslaving an enemy city when you captured it. With slic you are able to implement new concepts without changing the source code of the ctp2.exe.

And if you aren't satisfied after trieing all the mods with CTP2 than you can come back in half an year and try again. The modmakers still develope this game.

-Martin

	19-05-2002 05:05									#3
	Welcome Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Forget everything negative you may have heard about the game in terms of the AI - In fact, forget the default game and go straight for the Mods.

Read the Mod comparison thread that is topped in this forum for a breakdown on the mods that are now available. All of the main ones are stable, and if you have a problem, there is more than enough people here that will help you.

Approach the game with an open mind - this is a different game than civ3. There are features in civ3 that are not in CTP, and vice versa. If we wanted to play civ3, we all would be doing so now...

The nice thing is that CTP2 now has an active Modding community that knows what they are doing. We are the support team, and are doing it for the love of the game, rather than the bottom line. (who is getting paid here???? - raise their hand please - ahh, no hands are up)

We are not Firaxis - we do not have to answer to the almighty dollar. Nothing wrong with that (after all Firaxis employees do have to eat...) but you will find that we are very open-minded and creative here.

...end of commercial

Last edited by hexagonian on 20-05-2002 at 19:53

	19-05-2002 09:15									#4
	Hello, friend! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

(Almost) Everything bad you read about ctp2 is true...
...For the game out of the box.

You do need mods for CTP2. End of story. Even if the Fan's ultimate patch: The Apolyton Pack.
Wich does exacly what it says. Fix the bugs specially regarding AI.

After that be surprised with the game mod ability playing one of the big mods.

Think wise.

	19-05-2002 12:20									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Aside from the sound reasons given above, I just walked into a department store the other day and saw CTP2 for $9.99 (American). Compare that to Civ3 at the same store for $49.99. Now you tell me where is the bargain?

	19-05-2002 12:33									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

P.S. I've played lots of Civ3, I like the game for what it offers. With CTP2 the possibilities are tenfold by comparison. The modding ability alone has put it in the forefront for me. Add to this the true stacking of units(ie Armies), the PW, the bigger and better tech tree, the greater number of civilizations, and governments. CTP2 is a different game than Civ3, and in so many ways much better, take this from someone who used to badmouth the CTP series on a regular basis, before I saw the light. (Forgive me guys I didn't know what I was doing )

	19-05-2002 16:30									#7
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by centrifuge (Forgive me guys I didn't know what I was doing )

Yeah a lot of people don't know what they are doing, but it isn't too late.

-Martin

	19-05-2002 18:55									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by centrifuge Forgive me guys I didn't know what I was doing

	20-05-2002 01:24									#9
	Remove this text

The short anwser is to just spend the $9.99 on the game and decide for yourself. I'd be willing to bet the purchase price that you'll enjoy the modded game.

	20-05-2002 07:08									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Where is it $9.99? The buy link from their site goes to a purchase screen where it is $39.99

	20-05-2002 10:21									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I saw it for $9.99 in the electronics portion of a Fred Meyer department store.

	20-05-2002 15:44									#12
	Suffering from ads?

Amazon is currently selling it for $10.00 (probably some kind of discount action though, the price of the older CtP1 is $18.99). But I bet buying it at a local departmant store or whatever is even cheaper...

	20-05-2002 21:17									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I've saw it on sale for £10.99 in HMV in Britain and at a local electronics cash and carry for £7.99

	21-05-2002 18:26									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

I just got this game last night and sat down to learn how to play. My God! the detail! Finally a game with some degree of complexity to it! I can already see several different types of strategies being pursued to win.

This game has every feature I always wanted in Civ III, but had to beg for in the Civ III General Forum.

It's super easy to win coming out of the box (either that or I need to get in touch with Donald Rumsfeld about war strategies ), but I can't wait to patch it and try something new.

Also, I found out where almost ali the Civ III mod makers have been mining their ideas.

	21-05-2002 19:11									#15
	Welcome to the real world of civvin' Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yes, the default(y) game is easy and passive!!!

Stop playing the unmodded version and go straight to the Mods. Don't want the unmodded game to color your perspective...

Play the mods and make suggestions for improvements in the Creation thread so we can all improve the game even more.

	21-05-2002 19:16									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by ahenobarb Also, I found out where almost ali the Civ III mod makers have been mining their ideas.

The only problem fro them is that they can't realize everything that is possible in CTP2.

I agree with Dave you should get a mod as soon as possible, note that every mod changes the game more or less a lot, so you need different strategies to win.

-MArtin