20-05-2002 09:42									#1
	Let's butcher Egyptians, 1520ad Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Our first unit to approach Heliopolis was killed by a catapult. We will have to approach the city a different way. We currently have 4 crusaders at our disposal in Shade, more being trained elsewhere in the commune.

Your options:

1. Sail 2 triremes with 4 crusaders to the red X, attacking with second movement points
   
2. Sail 3 triremes with 6 crusaders to the red X, attacking with second movement points
   
3. Abandon the plan to capture Heliopolis, a free tech, and a bag of gold.

The Supreme Military Commander recommends option 2. Our musketeer fortified just outside the forest would them march in to defend our new real estate.

	20-05-2002 11:44									#2
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What's the catch if we send in 6 crusaders? Will it take longer to get them there? Will it leave us a little more vulnerable somewhere? If not (or even if it DOES take an extra turn or two to get them there), why are we even waiting?

Kill them comrades, KILL!!!

	20-05-2002 12:36									#3
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Get 12 crusaders and take there whole civ

	20-05-2002 12:43									#4
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But only in the name of spreading world peace.

Isn't Communism great?!

	20-05-2002 12:50									#5
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Hit as hard as possible or don't hit at all.

	20-05-2002 15:59									#6
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4 is good
6 is even better

(btw you say we have 4 crusaders in Shade, I think we can get 4 crusaders of the 2 triremes dwelling in the airea to so we would only need 1 more trireme (maybe we should rushbuild a trireme in Shade) )

little other question: what's the next target(their capital??? )

Shade

	20-05-2002 17:16									#7
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Hey, how about a screenshot?

Why six instead of four? Four might be enough, but six should be guaranteed success. If two of ours die and they have 3 units there (they are probably sending in more units from the east, an attack force of four might not capture the city... Six should avoid this problem...

I'd rather rush another crusader than a trireme. However, if no third trireme is available, it would necessary to pull off the six unit invasion.

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	20-05-2002 17:35									#8
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little side-note
maybe we can leave the crusader and the musketeer where they are now and try to lure some of their units out the city...they can just move to the forestsquare and then they are sitting ducs for our crusader.

(the 6-unit invasion would be usefull if we plan to march on to their capital(6 units ready and if we steal Navigation we get 3 carvels to transport them))

Shade

	20-05-2002 17:36									#9
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We've already seen the result of a skeleton attack presence.
Disaster! Let us learn from history, not repeat it!!

Hit them hard, and preferably below the belt. We must save the infidels from there fat, bourgeois monarch!

BTW, that American city is pretty far from home. Any bribe potential there ya think?

	20-05-2002 18:41									#10
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit We've already seen the result of a skeleton attack presence. Disaster! Let us learn from history, not repeat it!!

No, that lead musketeer was to draw out the catapult, which didn't move toward Shade. It was a gamble to take the city with the few units we had available - it just didn't work out in our favor. Agreed, more is merrier, as they say.

	20-05-2002 21:34									#11
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Kill them! Kill them all!!!

	20-05-2002 23:20									#12
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I can land 6 Crusaders on the Red X and attack Heliopolis on the 8th turn.

Or 4 Crusaders on the Red X and attack on the 7th turn with 2 more Crusaders to follow up on the 8th.

Using only 3 Triremes, and rush-building only the current Crusader in progress in Shade.

	20-05-2002 23:46									#13
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According to the (unanimous so far!!!!) survey, sending 6 on turn 8 is an overwhelming favorite.

Thanks for such specific info!!!

	21-05-2002 02:38									#14
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overwhelming?? unanimous!!

	21-05-2002 05:49									#15
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OK, I've diagrammed it out on a copy of the screenshot of the area. I can't find a flaw. We can hit Heliopolis with 6 Crusaders from the South, pick off any units that approach Shade with a 7th Crusader on a Fortified Musketeer, and it leaves an 8th Crusader and another Musketeer in Shade for dense. Taking Heliopolis on the 8th turn.

I don't want to show it yet (it looks like a diagram of a bar-fight). Plus, I don't want to step on the SMC's toes (I'm just giving him a "number of turns" target to better).

I'll bet the SMC can do better (either in fewer turns, or with our troops better-positioned, or protected, or something).

	21-05-2002 07:05									#16
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Option 2 seems to have jumped out to an early lead

---
However we'll have only ourselves to blame when all the trimies are lost at sea
---
However, I support option 2- if we don't lose the triremes, it nearly guarantees a victory of sorts!

	21-05-2002 08:06									#17
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Funny... I tried to post a message criticising the plan from overlooked perspectives about six hours ago (twice) and it never posted itself...



In any case, I'm scared we may lose triremes to lone Egyptian rafts. We must consider that, it's no joke losing three units in one fell swipe.

	21-05-2002 08:57									#18
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the greatest risk of all is to take no risks.

	21-05-2002 12:27									#19
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We have right on our side! There is no divine authority that would allow such a tragedy to occur as the destruction of our whole force.

Comrades, let us proceed to kick ass, layeth the smack down, open a can of whoop-ass and just let those jabronis try to prove us wrong.

	21-05-2002 15:03									#20
	Thebe Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Maybe we can already start planning an attack on Thebe?
(when we get Heliopolis , we can take Navigation-> instant upgrade from triremes to carvel--> build Magellans --> +2 movementpoints for us (I still need 4~5 caravans for that)
--> rushbuild a diplo in Heliopolis (or one of the other 2 cities)
and send him to Thebe to check it out...then send in the troops .(8 Crusader now )

Shade

	21-05-2002 15:12									#21
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yes yes wipe them out

	21-05-2002 18:25									#22
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Wow, not even a banana vote!

President, I recommend landing all six the same turn - Four the first turn could mean not taking the city and having one more defender to face. Or an additional reinforcement getting there before ours.

El Awrence, having an egyptian trireme sink our fleet is the only serious danger to this attack plan. All I can suggest is to move the triremes so that they use their 3rd movement point to reach offshore the red X. In other words, don't end the previous turn within 5 squares of the city. That will minimize the chance of an egyptian ship showing up to sink us. If one does (that is, blocks our access to the square on which we want to land), we should be happy to land everybody early and abort the mission - better to regroup than to lose the whole force!

Thebes is walled. Sacking it will require either a large ground force or frigates/ironclads. It has two wonders, so we should definitely target it for future acquisition.

	21-05-2002 18:29									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq Thebes is walled. Sacking it will require either a large ground force or frigates/ironclads.

Or a buncha diplomats. Which should be being demanded by the Head of the Foreign Office.

Hey, where is adamsj/James Adams?

	21-05-2002 19:17									#24
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Or a buncha diplomats. Which should be being demanded by the Head of the Foreign Office. Hey, where is adamsj/James Adams?

8 diplo's might do some serious damage as well

Shade

	21-05-2002 20:54									#25
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Magellan's -->> ironclads -->> superironclads -->> Death of Thebes!!

What's our tech path to Ironclads? Once we have them, walled coastal cities will bow before our awesome might!

If that's too long a process, I agree that a Diplo force to take down the walls is our best bet.

	22-05-2002 04:01									#26
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A Plan to Attack Heliopolis:

The key to this proposal is to establish a city on the peninsula West of Heliopolis to shorten the transport distance to the South.

Trireme 1 will pick up a waiting Settler and a Crusader arriving from Rivertown and head for the peninsula. Trireme 2 with 2 Crusaders already aboard will head for the same spot. Trireme 3 near Apolyton will head there also, picking up 2 Crusaders from Shade on the way. We will have discovered Explosives while the Triremes are enroute, so the Settler will be an Engineer by the time it arrives.

Trireme 1 will drop off the Engineer and move East to serve as a bridge for a 3rd Crusader from Shade. The Engineer will establish a city on the following turn, and Triremes 2 and 3 will wait safely in the city, exactly 1 turn away from landing 4 Crusaders to attack Heliopolis. The 2 Crusaders on Trireme 1 will land on the plain 2 squares from Heliopolis. All 6 Crusaders will attack on the same turn.

If Heliopolis has a Crusader, it may attack and kill our 2 on the plains. Still, that will remove a defender from Heliopolis, and we will have 4 Crusaders to attack with. It should not require 4, and an unused one will land and kill that Crusader.

Well? What does everyone think? (and I particularly want the analysis from the SMC, Minister of War Sodaq, since that is really his field) There may be easier or safer ways to do this, and we have a couple of days to work it out!

I hope the diagrams are understandable:

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	22-05-2002 04:02									#27
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Crusaders and dips shuold do the trick for now, but I strongly suggest a move for Magallans and clads like Jrabbit suggested, let us rule the seas with our superior navy

	22-05-2002 04:02									#28
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Diagram 2:

The blue circle is the new city. And yellow 7 and green 7 should be "8" (oops).

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	22-05-2002 04:15									#29
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quote: Originally posted by atawa Crusaders and dips shuold do the trick for now, but I strongly suggest a move for Magallans and clads like Jrabbit suggested, let us rule the seas with our superior navy

Welcome, atawa! I agree we want to get Magellan's and ironclads soon. We are researching Exposives right now, and will probably be going for Navigation and University after that. We probably won't be offerred Physics immediately upon getting Navigation. But, as this is an island world, we will want to stay focussed on seapower.

	22-05-2002 05:23									#30
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Naval power is indeed the way to go, if this truly is an island world as you say. Why don't we starve them out of thebes, and if we kill of the local population what better place to build our new city of FUNKY TOWN!!!!