21-05-2002 06:46									#1
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My brother and I have been playing OCC for a few months now. I can consistently make it to AC on most decent maps, but NEVER before 1900. I think my best game would have netted a late 1800s launch if i had not screwed it up with some diplomatic gaffes.

When playing OCC, do you guys start dozens of games before finding a suitable start spot? I almost *NEVER* get monarchy before 2000BC, and a good game sees a 1500BC colossus.

My very best OCC got to 1T discos once, and only once. Usually I'll get down to 2T and then it starts drifting back up to 3, then 4, even with production of 800 beakers or so.

I've read Paul's strategy guide, and generally follow that route for discoveries. I've seen posts on this site referring to "2 techs per turn, or "3 techs per turn." How is this possible? I've had cities of size 28-30 using every square, with trade specials, with three 20+ trade routes, every improvement, and every science wonder that barely net 2T.

I have the feeling that I must be missing something major. Any suggestions on frequent pitfalls by those of you who were stuck in the 19xx arrival doldrums but then broke out?

	21-05-2002 10:03									#2
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Yes, it does take dozens of restarts. That's why we often shared maps when someone would get a good starting position. Paul's OCC page had some, and maybe check the Apolyton downloads. Also, do you have 2.42 or MGE? MGE has a more hostile AI which does effect OCC negatively.

Remember that you have to share enough tech with neighbors (especially purple, which is usually the "index" civ) so that you're not too far ahead. As soon as you discover a new advance, trade an older one. Nobody stays at the 1T intervals in OCC for more than a few turns, however you should be able to stay at the 2T interval for the whole end game after that.

It took me a while to break 1900. I think my best was 1830ish. Paul's record is, what, early 1700s or something?

	21-05-2002 11:16									#3
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I'm of 2 minds on this one.

Mind #1: I think dozens of restarts are needed - at least for most mere mortals! And I suspect, having the Paulicy close at hand, and restarting once you start to fall too far behind, might be in order as well. It always struck me that OCC games had to be quite rigidly structured to work, which is one reason I don't play them a lot.

Mind #2: Forget everything you read here, OCC is impossible ! It's a giant hoax perpetuated by Apolytonians in order to make you look stupid.

(At least, this is how I feel, 9 times out of 10 that I attempt OCC!)

STYOM

	21-05-2002 12:09									#4
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Unfortunately multiple techs / turn cannot be achieved in OCC -- although you can get a tech entirely (less one beaker) by trading the entire production of a city is needed to tip that tech out of the bar -- as you only have one city that's it.

Try the games listed in the back of the Paulicy - not only are they good starts, but there are normally comparison tables so that you can see where you are dropping behind.

Don't play safe - divert to mech inf for example - you can't afford safe in OCC - your city is frequently empty for centuries and you are relying on treaties for safety.

STYOM is correct purple is the key civ once you become supreme, but for much of your OCC life you will be far from this - look up the key tech table to determine which civ to give all your tech to ...

Enjoy!

SG[1]

	21-05-2002 19:58									#5
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6kman, it usually doesn't take that long. You know within a few turns that you don't have a prime city location: restart. You might succeed with only two specials, if you've got rivers you can eventually forest, and the site touches the ocean, etc. You won't set a record without four specials, or two wines and a whale or something awesome like that.

SG[1], by the time you have a chance at a 1T interval you may be Supreme. Bribing barbs can add enough power to a tech lead, if there aren't any wars going on to inflate other civs' power. But, yeah, I gotta study that key tech stuff since I haven't OCCed for a year.

schwett, my city is almost never empty because treaties can be broken and there are no treaties with barbs. Have a Dip hanging around to help deal with them. Then there's always NON units from huts. If you don't keep one or two around you can't chase the barb leaders down. That can be a significant source of money.

Of course, we don't research or trade for dead-end tech like Fundies or take time to build a Mech Inf "just in case." That expense will cost you one turn when you cold be building a freight you need to rush SS units.

	21-05-2002 20:23									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits STYOM is correct purple is the key civ once you become supreme, but for much of your OCC life you will be far from this - look up the key tech table to determine which civ to give all your tech to ... SG[1]

I most strenuously deny advising anyone to give tech to the purple civ. Not because said person may not be 'Supreme', but because tech gifting is anathema to me.

Thus, I'm a lousy OCC'er... I know I should tech gift, but it flies in the face of all my murderous instincts vis-a-vis the AI.

STYOM

	21-05-2002 20:52									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow Bribing barbs can add enough power to a tech lead...

Sure...if they are NON units. But from limited memories of OCC on some maps, I recall there was always a struggle to achieve the magic 80 shield production target for the SS Structural in one turn. Too much unit support and this becomes harder.

--------------------

SG(2)

	21-05-2002 21:49									#8
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About adverse AI, what about ToT?
I think the AI is said to be worse than in MGE (by worse I mean for OCC - it is very much agressive). I mean the AI either all start to fight me as soon as I start building the SS or they demand techs like "Give me superconductor and space flight or we destroy your civ". What's bad is they will declare war and my NON warrior or even legion usually has trouble against the fighter/tank/cavalry they send against me (not that they send a single one either). In the end, I often get beaten to AC because the AI built like lots of propulsion/fuel where I could afford only 3 of each .
Are there any .mp (maps instead of regular saves) suitable for OCC? (I don't want to try to change a MGE file into a ToT one).
I also have lots of trouble getting good starts, and probably landed only once before 1900. But even, I am not sure of that, I may have dreamed it.

	21-05-2002 21:54									#9
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Just make up your own map if you want.No fun just searching and searching for that spot.

However OCC can be won without any trade specials.In fact,it can be won with no specials and no wonders,but, one thing at a time.

Play as white and you suffer no research penalty.

	21-05-2002 23:15									#10
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Yes it can be won using a size one city on the artic circle.

That one blew me away.

RAH

	21-05-2002 23:16									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Smash Play as white and you suffer no research penalty.

Eh - please enlighten me - this is not the way I understand the key tech thingy works ...

quote: Originally posted by Straybow ... my city is almost never empty because treaties can be broken and there are no treaties with barbs.

Don't forget that the fear from Barbs is that they will pillage your infrastructure, not that they will take the city -- in OCC even a caravan will hold your city against a 40 unit uprising

SG[1]

p.s. not to upset anyone, but I think Paul's record is inside the first millenium ...

	21-05-2002 23:28									#12
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Happy memories ...
I just went back and checked out the Paulicy - http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ.htm if you are not familiar with it.
The Comparison games were great fun - I loved #9 in which I obtained my earliest ever AC win (1516)

SG[1]

	29-05-2002 10:18									#13
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What was the last comparison game? Why did they die out. that seemed like the only thing keeping sten around here...

	31-05-2002 02:48									#14
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size 1 artic city?!?! how do u keep it at size one?

	08-06-2002 09:50									#15
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thanks to everyone for all the advice.

i am clearly missing something major, because i have improved somewhat, but only by small refinements here and there. my best arrival is 1898.

i made myself a map which i felt was ideal, isolated yet near enough to make contact, coastal but few ocean squares, 4 specials (wine, wine, silk, whales), and an unfair amount of river.

still though, i get about the same result. i had the 'suss and monarchy around 2000bc, but it was a long ride from there to coperni, and by the time i had all the key wonders and was maxed out on size it was nearly 1800!

	08-06-2002 10:53									#16
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i tried the "smash" game from the paulicy page.....

first try arrived in 1885. it seemed easier. i guess my map wasn't as optimum as i thought it was. i think i can get this one down to 1850 or so, as i forgot to establish trade routes until pretty late.

i had good luck with the huts and trib tho.