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Caligastia
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Sloww-
Theres nothing wrong with admitting you dont know the answer to something. If I ask you whether there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, can you honestly say for sure that there is or there isnt? The only honest answer is "Im not sure".
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
First of all, not all atheists make this assertion.
Weak (negative) atheists hold that there is no good reason to believe in the existence of a god ("I do not believe in the existence of a god.")
Strong (positive) atheists hold that there are good reasons to believe in the non-existence of gods ("I believe that god(s) do not exist.")
I don't see how that can be construed as arrogance.
On the other hand, the agnostic position is a cop-out, a refusal to choose sides. |
Its not arrogance to say that you see no good reason to believe in God as long as you admit that you dont know for sure. This is the case in the examples you gave.
I dont see being agnostic as a cop-out. Why should anyone choose sides on an issue they are either not interested in or dont know enough about to make a decision? If someone asked you if there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe and you said "Im not sure", would it be fair to accuse you of "copping out" or "refusing to choose sides"?
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Rogan Josh
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I thought an agnostic was someone who believed that one could never know whether or not God exists (ie. in principle)? Am I wrong?
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
No, no, no. You have it wrong. It's not what you know but what you believe. |
Whats the difference? If you dont really know something for sure, then how can you say you believe it?
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
If you really know something for sure, why would there be a need to believe in it? Do you believe in the Earth? |
If you really know something for sure then you do believe in it. If you dont know something for sure then you cant believe in it 100% can you? and if you dont believe in it 100% then you have to admit you dont know for sure - if you are being honest.
Agnostics are just being honest about the fact that they dont know for sure, while atheists like to sound like they are sure of the answer when they really arent. Thats arrogance IMO.
Last edited by Caligastia on 23-05-2002 at 21:04
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Bereta_Eder
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urban,
an atheist and a religious or agnost person can share the same values of life, that includes mainly moral.
one religious person can put more emphasis to :gays go to hell" part of the scriputeres.
another can put more epmhasis to: judge not so you will not be judged.
an atheist can say gays are an abnormality
another atheist can say: freedom of sexual choice is good.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Well, I'm no "Trekkie" or anything, but my answer would be "I have no doubt". |
You can strongly believe it, but unless you have experienced alien life for yourself you cant say you are 100% sure.
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
No, no, no. You have it wrong. It's not what you know but what you believe.
Christians believe in the existence of their God, and not in the existence of Odin, Zeus, Brahma, and Ralph the snake god.
Atheists do not believe in any of these.
Agnostics are waffling  |
Most agnostics I know are not waffling, they really believe (as I do) that the nature and reality of God is unknowable. So believing in anything concrete of yes/no is a pointless exercise in mental masturbation. Might make ya feel good, but the end result is that it won't make a difference.
I could easily say that Theists are cop-outs who are afraid of death and hence feel compelled to believe in a God so they can feel some kind of comfort in thinking there is an afterlife. And that they also just can't accept that there's no ultimate, all-encompassing "justice" in the universe. So they take the cop out way of believing there is a God who fix everything in the end and reward the good, punish the bad, etc.
I can also assert atheists are just anti-establishment types who reject God solely on the basis that they are angry, f*cked-up people who have had personal trauma. Since they are so arrogant and can't accept that a God would let them suffer at all, then they reject God.
Of course, both assertions would be patently silly, as it would be attempting to generalize the mindset of all who believe something or another. You can't assume to know why people think the way they do.
The same applies for agnostics. Sure, there are probably many who just don't know what to believe and therefore don't commit. Call them wafflers if it makes you feel superior. However, saying all agnostics are like that is an unfair generalization based on bias and ignorance.
The alien question is actually the similar for me. I do believe that, in this vast universe of billions of galaxies, that there is tons of other intelligent life out there. However, I think it is highly unlikely that mankind will ever discover such life, as the distances involved are just too vast and, AFIK, the means of travelling any such distances would be impossible. At any rate, it certainly won't happen in our lifetimes. So why even debate or argue about it? It's something we will never know.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Ever met Plato? Ever met George Washington? Ever met Marie Curie?
No? But you're sure they existed, right? Why? |
Because there is overwhelming evidence that they did. The evidence for the existence of alien life is far from overwhelming, in fact there is no evidence.
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:19
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Ever heard of Socrates, Slow? He of the "all knowledge starts with 'I don't know?'"
I am agnostic because I do not think humanity has figured out the universe yet, and may never do so. My inclination is to say that there is no God, and that science will eventually explain the workings of the universe. But science needs an awful lot more data before we can have a "theory of everything," unless you're content with Douglas Adams' answer, 42. Because we have explored so little of the universe, I cannot rule out the possibility that there is a God, or some form of Creator. I doubt it, but I refuse to assert that I KNOW something that I consider UNKNOWABLE, at least at this time.
If you think that's "sitting on the fence" or being a "wussie" well, good for you, since you've got it all figured out.
-Arrian
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23-05-2002 20:17
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