23-05-2002 01:16									#1
	War time mobilisation... Suffering from ads?

My current game is Egyptians on a large continent + 2 medium islands. All this on the Regent level.

Here is the map,

Zulu (island)
Egypt (continent) Romans (continent)
Greeks (continent) Indians (continent)
Japan (continent) China (continent) Babylon (continent)
Persia (continent) Russia (island)

Yesterday I decided to take over two civilisations that isolated me from new cities established after a recent fight. I figure I'd take over the Romans and Greeks, so I started building a massive Cavalry. We I had enough units, I took over their 6 cities quite quickly. The war ended and I managed to never get a lot of Civil disorder (which I usually get after 20+ turns of war).

I kept building Cavalry and at the same time finished building the Universal Suffrage (help fight war time unhappiness).

So I figured I would attack the Greeks with all my cavalry.. thing is they we well prepared and after capturing a few cities, I started losing a couple and figured something had to be done.

It seems that the AI has extra abillities, such as to be able to convert almost all of it's population into conscript fighters.

Anyhow, I decided to try the war-time mobilisation. I also set Luxury to 20% to fight unhappiness. I began to be able to churn Cavalry after 2 or 3 turns out of most of my big cities and took over the Greeks in a few turns.

After destroying them completely, mobilisation went back to normalcy. This is great and might help me destroy China or Japan that seems to be stacking lots of units for a couple turns now.

How have you used mobilisation?

	23-05-2002 01:53									#2
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It's funny you posted this... I just mobilized for the first time, too.

I'm in an epic war with France and Germany, and I'm way behind in techs. I've successfully ejected (killed) all of their attacking forces, and now want to go on the offense. I found that I was just keeping up with their military production, so every turn I'm running around mostly just killing continued attackers.

To turn the tide, I decided to try mobilize... WOW!!!

The coolest was on the next turn, when a slew of cities that were already within 2-3 turns of producing Infantry popped!

The only thing I'm worried about is that you have to be at absolute peace with the world to get out of it, and I'm currently at war with 7 out 11 other civs.

	23-05-2002 01:57									#3
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No, I think you can drop out if you make peace with one. You should be ok, Theseus.

I've used mobilization for a rather obscure purpose (to slow down my culture accumulation), but I can see its uses in wartime. If and when I work up the patience to play large maps instead of normal, I will probably find more use to it. On Normal Maps, my goal is to attain so much power in ancient times that I can easily fight the rest of the world unmobilized later on. That goal is attainable at the difficulty level I choose (Monarch). Not really so on Large maps.

-Arrian

	23-05-2002 03:24									#4
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I have used 'war time' before. And it does have benefits to be sure. However, I like my civ to balanced with its production, so am reluctant to use it. It is aslo frustrating to be trapped in this mode when your victory is assured, but you need to conquer a few more cities. I once made the mistake of changing in peace time (I think), so I had to find someone to fight fast.

Sean.

	23-05-2002 03:30									#5
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I almost always go on war mobilization when I'm attacking!

The only time I don't is if my military is way beter than the AI, that way I keep improve my slow and border cities, and attack with the units I obtein from my hordcore ones.

Most of my Industrial wars I am in mobilization, I think it helps greatly.

Saluti

	23-05-2002 03:35									#6
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So mobilization really just helps you crank out units faster is that it? What are the drawbacks. I'm currently engaged in a world war and I have modern armor/mech inf. and no one else does.

	23-05-2002 03:41									#7
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Ops.... double post

Sorry

	23-05-2002 03:42									#8
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The drawbacks is that your civs will not be able to buld any city improvement (unless it's a war improvement i.e. barracks)

- No temples
- No banks
- No wonders
- No nothing

You will still be allowed to finish off the improvements you were building, but not start new ones.

I'm not sure about that, but I think it also increase war wearness

quote: I have modern armor/mech inf. and no one else does.

If you have a so big advantage you should be able to take out other civs without going in mobilization

Saluti

	23-05-2002 12:35									#9
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I never mobilized so far, mainly because I had no need. But I will, under the right circumstances. I keep this feature in reserve and will use it as an extraordinary mean, just like its purpose in real life. By the way, I also never drafted. Till now.

	23-05-2002 13:22									#10
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The only problem I have with mobilization is that I can't build Temples in newly conquered cities.

Which means easier flips since new cities will only have 1 tile border.

	23-05-2002 20:37									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I've used mobilization for a rather obscure purpose (to slow down my culture accumulation), but I can see its uses in wartime.

Does Mobilization prevent the accumilation of Culture Points, or were you refering to using it to prevent yourself from building cultural buildings? If it stops CP, that's a pretty major drawback in my view.

	23-05-2002 22:08									#12
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quote: Originally posted by player1 The only problem I have with mobilization is that I can't build Temples in newly conquered cities. Which means easier flips since new cities will only have 1 tile border.

A very interesting point. If I mobilize, I'm running the risk of cultural flipping on all the newly conquered cities. Who said Civ3 does not have strategic choices to be made?

Then another question: wouldn't mobilization be more useful in a defensive war?

	23-05-2002 23:15									#13
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Fitz,

Mobilization cuts culture production from existing buildings in half. I WANTED that, in order to prolong the game - I didn't want to win yet. But yeah, in most situations it's not desirable, so that's the "catch."

-Arrian

	24-05-2002 17:37									#14
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War mobilizaton has its uses, though not being able to build temples in newly captured cities is a major problem. One thing not mentioned is that any peacetime improvement started before mobilization will continue to build during mobilization. So if you have started, say a Wonder, it will continue to build, but at furious rate.

CORRECTION:
The shield bonus for mobilization does not apply to cities producing non-military improvements.

Last edited by Zachriel on 01-06-2002 at 07:44

	24-05-2002 18:32									#15
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Another option here is not to mobilize but to draft (after Nationalsim I believe). If you have a lot of size 12 cities waiting for hospitals or mass transit, you can draft a military unit. Either for defense or to send to a corrupt city so that it can be disbanded for shields. Mobilization has both good and bad points, but if you draft your own citizens in peacetime it seems to have little effect on their happiness. I am doing this in a Republic govt with lots of luxuries, wonders, etc.

	24-05-2002 19:19									#16
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Draft gives to a crappy unit at the cost of 1 pop point and 20 turns of unhappiness. Not worth it, IMO.

-Arrian

	24-05-2002 20:01									#17
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I have next to no units defending my cities in the industrial age - only what spearmen are left from ancient times - but tend to research steam power ahead of nationalism, so I don't need to draft to defend myself. (Railroads can transport my offensive units to fend off any attack.) I did draft one rifleman in my last game because it was in an isolated city right next to a civ with whom I was at war.

Mobilization is terrific if you need its benefits, but its overall lack of flexibility makes it not worthwhile otherwise.

	25-05-2002 03:39									#18
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Mobilization is a fantastic hidden gem. If you use it right, and your empire is the right size, it will make you invincible.

	25-05-2002 04:08									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Txurce I have next to no units defending my cities in the industrial age - only what spearmen are left from ancient times -

Ironic how one major gripe some people have made about Civ3 is that the AI doesn't always upgrade its units. In my experience, the AI actually upgrades as much as most human players. Some players complain because the AI defends with spearmen in the modern age (forgetting that the AI is obviously too poor to upgrade and is probably losing badly to the human's armor blitz). Others complain because no one can get a tech advantage due to AI tech trading (forgetting the first situation, where a superior unit is attacking a very inferior one). And still others complain because they actually are so powerful that they see AI's defending with spearmen and lose a tank (once in a couple of hundred combats).

Me? I always upgrade my units because of my perfectionist nature. So even though most defenders are not essential in interior cities, I'll still have a veteran infantry defending even the lowliest town. With rail, they can be used as a ready reserve, so the cost is not really that high.

	25-05-2002 04:37									#20
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What exactly is the culture penalty for mobilizing? You lose 50% of the city's culture production each turn, right?

I haven't used it, so I don't know.

	25-05-2002 06:59									#21
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I don't draft units myself. I mobilized a couple of times. I did it when I was realy losing (I lost 6 out of 14 cities within two turns). I went mobil and got my cities back. I then deicided make like a russian in WW2, and march into their capital both times. It really makes the game fun.

	25-05-2002 10:04									#22
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Me too, I never drafted!
If I'm in need of soldier I just go in war-time mobilization, boost up my production and crank out Tank/Infantry in 1-2 turns on my hardcore cities.

Easier, less expensive, less "unhappy", gives me veteran

Saluti

	25-05-2002 10:06									#23
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Zachriel, the perfectionist in me used to be embarrassed about all my outdated units. Then I explained to him that it was not as embarrassing as having half my cities undefended. That shut him up.

	26-05-2002 00:50									#24
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I have fallen in loooooooove with mobilization... my knees are wobbly, and my heart goes pitter-patter.

My application of it is for serious, hard-core war, or wars to be more precise.

I am at war with 7 of the 11 other civs... most of my cities are at or near 12 pop, and I am still fighting off Tanks and Bombers with Infantry, Cav, and Arty.

Mobilization rocks!! First, I set most cities to build NON-military units, at warpspeed. As buildings are completed, I switch to either military buildings or units... when most cities have converted to military construction, I make peace with someone (usually a distant, side-show civ), even if it costs me 100 or 200 gold.

Additionally, I am selectively using drafting as part of the rapid build process, especially for captured cities... a drafted Infantry provides 22 shields, so they're great for kick-starting Temples and Barracks. I only draft at cities that are 12 pop, but not able to go into WLTKD.

So, even my non-optimal cities are building out quite nicely, and my military is in great shape for fighting off the hordes.

	26-05-2002 02:39									#25
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Drafting in large conquered cities also reduces the discontented population. I don't bother to as a rule, evn in this case, but I should.

What I should definitely do is switch to mobilization in the late stages of a domination game, the better to crank out cavalry. I guess I haven't because if it's constant war, I may be in monarchy. However, research becomes moot at the end, and a mobilized republic with low science and high luxuries is probably one mean productive fighting machine!

I don't decide to go for a domination win until I see that I'm on a continent large enough to make it feasible within range of my own record (not to mention doing well enough to consider it). But the next time that I find myself in that situation, I will go with the "duh" mobilization strategy and see if I can shave a few turns off my record. I think the advantage here will be having the means to pre-emptively build a second, seaborne force to hit the magic square mileage, if the main continent falls a little short.

(I never bother to research communism, because domination games tend to end soon after its potential discovery. Again, with a religious civ, it may be worth it, even at the end.)

	27-05-2002 17:03									#26
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Back when I was a peacemonger, I tried mobilization once. Problem was, it was in peacetime and I had a whole continent to myself. Though I was definitely short on firepower, so it actually invoked a massed production of military units that I never would've carried out originally. To get out of the mobilization (since my forces were now sufficient), I had to go to another continent and wipe out most of England (I was France).

Ironically, since turning warmonger, I haven't needed mobilization at all, since I'll still have a huge standing militia left over from my early horseman rush (up to Cavalry of course. When I get to tanks, its a different matter).

Next time I play a game and get that far, I might as well try mobilization when I get to the point where I need to replace my cavalry with tanks.

	01-06-2002 01:40									#27
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I just tried mobilization, in part due to reading this thread. I am coming up on Replaceable Parts (3 or so techs away), so I decided to annex some of Rome's jungles. The Babylonians pre-emptively attacked me first though,and it turns out Rome has gotten Nationalism and Military Tradition a bit sooner than I thought they would. So I'm up against forces equal to mine, on both (actually three) fronts. What to do?

Mobilize.

Boom. Cavalry up the wazoo. I even had to set some cites in the heartland to wealth because it was starting to become too much to handle.

So everything is going well, I've taken 2 of 4 cities in the jungle, which is on a peninsula far from my heartland. The problem is that I can't build temples or libraries or anything over there! The conquering of the other 2 is going slowly because it's too far away to properly reinforce my troops. These guys have got 2 rifles and 2 muskets defending each city, and all I've got attacking is 4 cavs and 2 rifles. They get the job done, but it's slow. I'm paranoid about my cities flipping back, and there's nothing to do about it until I make peace. I figure on doing this with the Babs, so I can still smack Rome around some, but I can't yet, because I'm moving to take a Babylonian port city and give it to the Iroquois (I'm very generous with my vassal, um, I mean "neighbor" civs).

Lesson learned: Mobilization is powerful, but you've really got to mow through the enemy with overpowering numbers and just keep pushing back their borders, fast. If you take your time it could hurt you.

	01-06-2002 02:05									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Zachriel One thing not mentioned is that any peacetime improvement started before mobilization will continue to build during mobilization. So if you have started, say a Wonder, it will continue to build, but at furious rate.

quote: Originally posted by Theseus Mobilization rocks!! First, I set most cities to build NON-military units, at warpspeed. As buildings are completed, I switch to either military buildings or units... when most cities have converted to military construction, I make peace with someone (usually a distant, side-show civ), even if it costs me 100 or 200 gold.

Are you guys really getting the benefits of extra production on non-military units? Unless I'm mistaken, only cities building military units (and maybe military buildings) get the shield bonus of mobilization.

I's been a while since I mobilized, but if I get extra production on cities working on hospitals / universities / wonders / etc., then this is a huge bonus.

Catt

	01-06-2002 02:35									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Catt Are you guys really getting the benefits of extra production on non-military units? Unless I'm mistaken, only cities building military units (and maybe military buildings) get the shield bonus of mobilization. I's been a while since I mobilized, but if I get extra production on cities working on hospitals / universities / wonders / etc., then this is a huge bonus. Catt

You always get shield bonus from mobilization, but you can't build civil. buildings while mobilized (but you CAN FINISH wonders & buildings STARTED before mob.)

	01-06-2002 03:39									#30
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quote: Originally posted by player1 You always get shield bonus from mobilization, but you can't build civil. buildings while mobilized (but you CAN FINISH wonders & buildings STARTED before mob.)

I'm at work and can't test with a saved game, but if mobilization allowed faster builds of non-military improvements (i.e., ones started just before mobilizing, including wonders), this would strike me as a huge exploit available to the human player.

Catt