24-05-2002 02:11									#1
	What to do when your science isn't counted anymore Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

As posted in my attempt thread I've got kindoff a little problem.
For some strange reason the game refuses to count my science(no more from my cities nor my caravans)
Maybe someone else has had the same problem or any options to solve it.
I'll try to give as much info as possible
*Deity game / Raging hordes /7 civs
*year 1975AD
*next tech: Future Tech 41
*cost of next tech: 13058beakers
*current sciencerate: 40% --> 27000beakers

I made a little miscalculation the turn before(had only a few beakers short to get my next tech=> I start 1974AD with ~99,9% of the beakers I need, I send some caravans around and got >20000G(ie also 20000beakers).Hit enter and start intermezzo...1h later after some serrious rushbuilding and 27000 beakers ,I have 0 new techs and when I look at the techscreen it tells me I have Not even 1 beaker in my research.
No problem(it's strange but well yeah I could live with that) but when I send 2 caravans(enough for some 1500G) no beakers show up. Now this is kinda strange don't you think.
If tried changing my science-rate and did some tries sending in new caravans==> no effect
0% (3turns/tech--> no effect)
10%(1turn/tech-->no effect)
20%(-1turn/tech-->no effect)
30%(0turn/tech-->no effect)
40%(0turn/tech-->again nada)
50%(13564turn/tech--> guess= nada,njetk,noppes, nothing,nihil )

also something else(don't know if this has any influence)-->1975 was the turn my population went through the second overflow(ie >640.000.000ppl)current pop ~2.700.000ppl(or something)

Maybe anyone with more experience has seen this before...I'm totally clueless ( I mean even more then else )

Shade

	24-05-2002 18:30									#2
	Support Apolyton

GLITCH.
Never seen it before.
And I thought I had seen everything. And seeing the number of views and lack of posts, I probably speak for many.

RAH

	24-05-2002 18:49									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by rah GLITCH. Never seen it before. And I thought I had seen everything. And seeing the number of views and lack of posts, I probably speak for many. RAH

This really what I was afraid off...
All was going so good....bye bye >500 pts(>68%)

all possible ideas what could be the cause is good to...

Shade

	24-05-2002 19:07									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I guess at 50% science you get more than 32000 beakers and you get the same overflow problem as with population. That would explain that bit... I don't know about the rest though.
Do you have a lot of scientist specialists? What happens if you remove all of them. Maybe there already is an overflow earlier on.

	24-05-2002 19:26									#5
	Tired of ads?

It certainly looks like an overflow problem - my betting is that the game believes you have a largish negative number of beakers in store - now whether this has been caused by an overflow in the beaker counting mechanism or as collateral damage from the population counter - a doubt we shall ever know

SG[1]

by the bye - if indeed it is a beaker count gone negative - it should eventually come positive again ... a glimmer of hope perhaps

	24-05-2002 20:26									#6
	Re: What to do when your science isn't counted anymore Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by shade n% (nturns/tech--> no effect,nada,njetk,noppes, nothing,nihil

... niente, rien...
More seriously, I never saw that : I've reach more than 41 future techs, I've overflow 300 000 population once, but science research continued, ... but problems only if révolution and under anarchy
As SG, I think it's probably an overflow question as we encouter with pop and in the demographic chart (unexplained negative values).
BTW, at this level of population and development, is not the game very boring ?

	24-05-2002 20:37									#7
	Got spare money?

Try removing some workers from trade squares in some of your cities. A limit might have been reached there, (yes, it doesn't make sense, but this is a strange problem)

	24-05-2002 22:18									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I've read quickly through the above...had the same Idea(flash of genious when trying to study )
my guess is something with overflow to but then in a very very 1 in a 1000.000 chance:
I had little under the science I needed ~13000
then add the ~20.000 from trade
=> this leaves me 2 options:
1) I have just under the 32768 --> the first city gives enough beaker to give an overflow--> start the negative 32768 run through(so now I would be at something like ~ -5000)

2) I already was over the overflow(although I somehow doubt it since I thought there were still beakers shown at the end of the turn...but I'm not sure)
-->Now I should be under ~ -5000.

I try this theory out later on this evening.

Shade

	25-05-2002 00:54									#9
	Yihooeeiii, Yessss, Yippieeee Suffering from ads?

Phew,I've figured it out...and I got through.
Here we go;

It was an overflowproblem(as expected)...ergo I'm back in the positive numbers now .

The overflow is not caused by the scientists or science-rate,wich is easilly explained by the simple fact that at the management-period your science-beakers are added one city at the time.(And I have no cities producing 32.000 beakers )
The problem was created as follows:
I started the turn with already ~13.000 beakers(just a few hundred short for the tech) then the massive caravantrade delivered me ~20.000G which means also ~20.000beakers
the sum must have been >32.000(otherwise with the beakers of my first city(this is the last one build,only has a few beakers(<50)), my researchcounter would be over the #beakers needed for the tech==>it would get reset )
In this case I must have had an overflow==> so my counter would have been ~ -32.000 to start with.Since this is less then the #beakers needed for the tech the counting would just continue.
at the end of the management I have 27.000 beakers more, so my final result was something like -5000beakers.
After a few caravans(~5000G) the beakers again appeared on screen.

In conclusion
If you have massive trade-income be carefull and don't overflow your science with your caravans.You can always use them next turn .

a little sidenote
I've been playing around a little with a backup of the save(made a little prog to figure some hex stuff out) and I have to conclude: those explanations of what is storred where aren't really 100% correct(although for 2.42 not)only the first part I can read perfectly but from the moment the info about the civs(one by one) comes up,stuff goes wrong...wanted to use this to figure out if I had negative science...I couldn't find it ==>trial and error still is the best scientific method.

Shade

	25-05-2002 01:08									#10
	Re: Yihooeeiii, Yessss, Yippieeee Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by shade Phew,I've figured it out...and I got through.

Great - I'm very glad

quote: Originally posted by shade a little sidenote I've been playing around a little with a backup of the save(made a little prog to figure some hex stuff out) and I have to conclude: those explanations of what is storred where aren't really 100% correct(although for 2.42 not)only the first part I can read perfectly but from the moment the info about the civs(one by one) comes up,stuff goes wrong...wanted to use this to figure out if I had negative science...I couldn't find it ==>trial and error still is the best scientific method.

What information - I love hex-editing save files, but have never got very far with Civ other than to hack out the psw in a PBEM game... ??

SG[1]

	25-05-2002 01:42									#11
	Support Apolyton

psw????
PBEM????

what info?--> the first moment data is given in blocks(7 or 8 block->1 block/civ)

Shade

	25-05-2002 01:58									#12
	Re: Yihooeeiii, Yessss, Yippieeee Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by shade ....(And I have no cities producing 32.000 beakers )

What?! You really need to improve this part of your game.

All told, the overflow might be good to know about. Someday...

	25-05-2002 02:26									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by shade psw???? PBEM???? what info?--> the first moment data is given in blocks(7 or 8 block->1 block/civ) Shade

sorry,
psw = password
PBEM = Play by email

what info? = "those explanations of what is storred where aren't really 100% correct"

SG[1]

	25-05-2002 02:31									#14
	Tired of ads?

ok...(btw sorry for the horrific english )

Shade

	27-05-2002 23:00									#15
	Re: Yihooeeiii, Yessss, Yippieeee Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by shade In conclusion ==>trial and error still is the best scientific method. Shade

... so Claude Bernard (a french scientist) said, as he promoted the "experimental method".
Another principle in a french cartoon (the Shaddocks) was : The more we miss, the more we are about to find the solution !

Seriously, congratulation for this contribution on overflows effects

	28-05-2002 02:17									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Seriously, congratulation for this contribution on overflows effects

thx

such things are always nice to know...so you can take care of them when you try to make something yourself...

Shade