25-05-2002 20:35									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia You have some good ideas there Seeker. The problem with most prisons is that the prisoners are molly-coddled thanks to the "cry for more human, open-concept prisons" as you said.

Why don't you spend a day there to find out exactly how coddled those prisoners are?

	25-05-2002 22:24									#62
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And what about white inmates raping black inmates??

Let's not ignore the other side of this issue.
Or has someone already posted about this?

	25-05-2002 22:46									#63
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun And what about white inmates raping black inmates?? Let's not ignore the other side of this issue. Or has someone already posted about this?

Sometimes I wonder about your brainpower. Read the articles that were linked. They discuss the prevelance of that type of action and say that it is rare. Do you have something else to contribute here?

	25-05-2002 22:48									#64
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Why don't you spend a day there to find out exactly how coddled those prisoners are?

I don't beleive that they are "coddled". But I do think that if you take my solution. "Order and discipline" rather than segregation, you will have to make several changes in the prisons...some of which will be "harsh".

	25-05-2002 22:53									#65
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rape in dutch prisons doesn't happen, or happen very rarely. How common is it in other countries? Are there any stats on it? We all know the stereotypes though.

	25-05-2002 23:08									#66
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Order and discipline are fine, GP. It's just that some people seem to be under the delusion that prison isn't such a bad place to be, and the prisoners do no work and have a pretty easy time just playing in the yard or watching tv. The truth is, prison is an extremely brutal place, and not just from the inmates. There is plenty of abuse from guards as well. Prison is designed to break your humanity, and it's very effective at doing so.

	25-05-2002 23:15									#67
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Prison is designed to break your humanity...

That's one man's view. Most people I know seem to think prisons are designed to keep criminals off the street. But what do we know.

	25-05-2002 23:20									#68
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"5) Whites are perceived as weaker (one inmate told HRW that "The belief that all or most white men are effete or gay is very prevalent, & that whites are cowards... Whites are prey and even a punk will be supported if he beats up a white dude.")"

The problem is a society that that turns white people into liberal wimps.

	25-05-2002 23:25									#69
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Which is why white man (far more likely to go to prison than white women), are more likely to be conservative.

	25-05-2002 23:25									#70
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Order and discipline are fine, GP. It's just that some people seem to be under the delusion that prison isn't such a bad place to be, and the prisoners do no work and have a pretty easy time just playing in the yard or watching tv. The truth is, prison is an extremely brutal place, and not just from the inmates. There is plenty of abuse from guards as well. Prison is designed to break your humanity, and it's very effective at doing so.

Some of the changes needed to prevent rape (and murder and battery) in prison would be unpopular with the inmates.

	25-05-2002 23:27									#71
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Which is why white man (far more likely to go to prison than white women), are more likely to be conservative.

He was being cute, Che...

	25-05-2002 23:27									#72
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quote: Originally posted by GP Some of the changes needed to prevent rape (and murder and battery) in prison would be unpopular with the inmates.

Going to prison in the first place is pretty unpopular.

	25-05-2002 23:31									#73
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Going to prison in the first place is pretty unpopular.

Sheeet yeah!! I lived across from the jail when I was in Breck. Saw the orange suiters doing work, etc.

But I am serious. If you really want to change things, you are going to make some waves. I think it's worth it. To prevent this type of abuse in prisons and to send a societal message to the inmates that society is in charge and that pack behavior will not be tolerated. Will be squashed hard...

	25-05-2002 23:38									#74
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I agree with you. Personally, I think the whole prison system needs to be overhauled, from top to bottom. Make prisons more disciplinary, safer, and at the same time try and educate these guys and give them some usefull skills. I think the object should be not just punishment, but trying to reduce recidivism (it's at 60% right now). Also, parole shouldn't simply release you onto the streets, but should stick you in a halfway house. The vast majority of people leaving prison are unprepared to cope with life on the outside.

	25-05-2002 23:42									#75
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quote: Originally posted by GP Sheeet yeah!! I lived across from the jail when I was in Breck. Saw the orange suiters doing work, etc. But I am serious. If you really want to change things, you are going to make some waves. I think it's worth it. To prevent this type of abuse in prisons and to send a societal message to the inmates that society is in charge and that pack behavior will not be tolerated. Will be squashed hard...

Its not gonna happen though.

	25-05-2002 23:50									#76
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Its not gonna happen though.

understood. The conservatives could give a ****. And the liberals lack the balls. Status quo rules...

	25-05-2002 23:53									#77
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That this kind of sh*t happens at all is because the prisoners themselves are not afraid of the guards or the system.

Why?

	25-05-2002 23:55									#78
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Who says they aren't afraid of the guards? Guards either aren't around or won't respond cause the guards don't give a **** about you. But guards have the guns and the batons, and can screw you over (hence the nickname, screws).

	25-05-2002 23:57									#79
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I visited Death Row in Oklahoma, seemed like an orderly and tidy place to me. But then I wasn't allowed near the inmates, so I wasn't raped on that occasion.

	26-05-2002 00:01									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Winston I visited Death Row in Oklahoma, seemed like an orderly and tidy place to me. But then I wasn't allowed near the inmates, so I wasn't raped on that occasion.

	26-05-2002 00:03									#81
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Death row is far, far different from the regular prison, Winston.

	26-05-2002 00:04									#82
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It seems to me there are three choices.
1.Build better prisons and hire and train more guards. Unfortunately, this costs money.
2.Use terror, if 1 guard is supposed to regulate 1 or 200 prisoners, theres no other way. After the first few machine gun massacres of the prisoners, its likely they'll pay some respect to the guards. Especially if old sparkey is kept humming.
3. maintain the status quo.

	26-05-2002 00:08									#83
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Option 4: Decrease prison population (no, I don't mean a reiteration of option 2).

	26-05-2002 00:08									#84
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I know, Che. I've never been to a regular prison though.

	26-05-2002 00:10									#85
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Spence, I agree with you that option 3 will rule. I would advocate a combination of 1 and 2. More 2 than Che would be comfortable with probably.

And of course, I agree with Che that the guards in some cases don't give a **** and allow bad things to happen. This is really a reflction of our society which lets these things happen. If I were dictator I would fire all the wardens/guards that think this way...

	26-05-2002 00:13									#86
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If you were a dictator you'd be too busy ****ging the help and stuffing yourself with food. I can see it now...

	26-05-2002 00:13									#87
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Option 4: Decrease prison population (no, I don't mean a reiteration of option 2).

Good caveat!

	26-05-2002 00:14									#88
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse If you were a dictator you'd be too busy ****ging the help and stuffing yourself with food. I can see it now...

You're right. I'd be a lazy dictator. Every now and then I'd get on Poly to whinge about what I oughta do...but than I'd go out and get lubricated...

	26-05-2002 00:46									#90
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Option 4: Decrease prison population (no, I don't mean a reiteration of option 2).

Did you mean a summary execution after conviction? Shame on you. That seems a little harsh!