24-05-2002 23:18									#1
	ICS deontology Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

What's the normal behavior with improvements in ICS ?
Recently, I play CivII stricly following the ICS (Infinite City Stategy), as summarized in DaveV paper (cf. the Great library).
If the principle is un discuss in the beginning of the party, at a moment of the game, you have to face the others civilizations to expend. So, under Communism or Fundamentalism, you conquer cities after cities, by force or by bribing.
But at this stage of the play, AI cities have built a lot of improvements.
What is the logic behavior in this situation, according of the rules and the spirit of ICS ?
How do you play?

Personnaly, I think that I have to sell gradualy (one in a turn) the improvements (not the Wonders of the World which are allowed) and to reduce population of each city to 8 by building engineers.
But the task of a leader is not to starve his own population : selling some improvements as harbours may be deleted ?
What's your experience ?
?

	25-05-2002 21:47									#2
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-Nevermind

Last edited by Cataphract887 on 26-05-2002 at 23:22

	28-05-2002 18:54									#3
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quote: deontology: Noun, the theory or study of moral obligation

JCP, how does a resident of Paris, France -- an apparent non-native English speaker -- come up with the word "deontology"? My college minor was English and I read a lot, but I don't recall ever encountering it.

Seems to be used properly. Good job.

I'm not an ICS'er so I can't answer your question. My guess is that they don't bother to sell improvements and reduce population; just a guess though.

	28-05-2002 20:19									#4
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Campo, I don't want to lessen JCP linguistic performance, but in french "deontology" happens to be... "déontologie"...

You might be surprised at the amount of uncommon (as in too complicated, or too literary) words a native french speaker might be able to use quite fluently in english!

Actually, I have more problems with the common sentences...


Anyway: Well done, JCP...

	28-05-2002 21:15									#5
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and - on topic * cough * - Pure 'Iron-Man' ICS as advocated by DaveV's paper is just one form of worship to the Deity - there are several variants the primary common ground being the placing of expansion before improvements. However, if you are trying to ICS in Republic or without Wonders you rapidly find many Temples being built - several variants accomodate the concept of a SSC or a Super Trade City both of which will need a fair number of improvements - and if you get some free from a friendly neighbouing ex-civilisation - why not make the most of them?

My ontology is not to allow moral obligations to interfere with pragmatic success - but then I have been called a Rabid Aggressive Rodent

SG[1]

	29-05-2002 10:10									#6
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Most hard core ICSers would say just do what is convenient. No requirement to disband improvements if they are usefull, but they (ok...I) would probably build a lot of engineers out of the city. And I would sell improvements that I don't need. definitly sell tjhe grwoth oriented ones (sewer, aquaduct). Sell others as the city shrinks (temple for instance.)

Getting back OFF Topic, how come we see so few Freench people at this site...or on the Internet? We've got tons of Finns and they are a puny country.

	31-05-2002 01:04									#7
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We don't speak French, so we are beneath them, and unimportant.

	31-05-2002 01:13									#8
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I don't ics as a norm but when I do I don't build any improvements.
just:
settlers/engineers
defenders/garrison
cutting edge attackers
camels
boats
dips
-basically only units.

thats about it.Maybe I build up a super science city/capitol so I may want 1 or 2 early granaries.Gardens and Michs are most helpful.SoL is almost a must for early Commie.Actually,The Gardens may be vital as well.

Its a quantity over quality thing.Sheer numbers to just overwhelm.

	31-05-2002 02:12									#9
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NO!!!!


If you get SOL you got fundie, especially if you have Mikes!! GEEZ. You don't have an ICS attitude.

	31-05-2002 16:05									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Cyrion You might be surprised at the amount of uncommon (as in too complicated, or too literary) words a native french speaker might be able to use quite fluently in english!

When the Normans (Vikings settled in Normandy) conquered England in 1066, they brought the french language with them and it was adopted by the English people, especially when there was new words or concepts. The original English was very rich in description names and verbs of action, those have mainly nothing to do with french, but the English language was poorer in words of philosophy, diplomacy or feelings and it's there you find the french words.

Some complain in France that the English is invading "la langue française", but historically, it has mostly been the other way around

	31-05-2002 16:09									#11
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quote: Originally posted by GP NO!!!! If you get SOL you got fundie, especially if you have Mikes!! GEEZ. You don't have an ICS attitude.

Yeah - (2) and i are at loggerheads on that one - I go Fundy, but he has theis predilection for commie -- strange world

SG[1]

	31-05-2002 22:29									#12
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(2) sounds like he still has some wimpy builder inhibitions.

	01-06-2002 00:16									#13
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GP get your Civ CD and start playing. Another armchair general....

-------------------

SG(2)

	01-06-2002 00:21									#14
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hehehe..if it works for DaveV then it will certainly work for me.Commie rules
Remember Arii's early landing on small map?...yup a commie empire for most game

	01-06-2002 05:29									#15
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quote: Originally posted by rah We don't speak French, so we are beneath them, and unimportant.

...beneath whom?
Remember: 'Liberté EGALITE Fraternité'*
If those three simple words were really in action all around the world, I guess the world would be somewhat better than it actually is.
(* I hope I don't need to translate ).

	01-06-2002 05:38									#16
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wtf happened to to the team today?..I am in a semi state of shock.This result could cost me a bundle

	01-06-2002 14:44									#17
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smash
Zidane was not playing. He has been praised so much that IMO the other players are somewhat paralysed when he is away.
(also remember that ALL those playing for Sénégal played in the French championship this year; I suppose they learned good lessons ).

Last edited by La Fayette on 01-06-2002 at 23:46

	01-06-2002 23:00									#18
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When i run my totalitarian regime, the only city that requires improvements would be the one i sleep in...Which of course is the most enlightened city in the world---- the SSC

otherwise all i do is send out my villagers...either that or they are fleeing the gestapo, unleash my spies/dips, construct wonders of grand proportions, train a minimalist army/navy. Of course the numero uno thing to do is to develop ones trade network.

once that is in order and/or some foreign diplomat disrespects my mighty empire, i blitzkrieg their nation and make them a vassal

	01-06-2002 23:49									#19
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smash
Try Saudi Arabia

	12-06-2002 22:31									#20
	Deontology or not deontology, that is the question ! Increase Your PM Length

Thanks for the answers.
I see two conclusions to this thread I open :
1/ It's clear that the true english native speakers was confused with my use of the word "deontology" ... maybe a "gallicism" (typicaly french idiomatic form)

2/ With my questions, I was too "purist" (if the word exists in english) and I understand there are so many ICstrategies as ICS players.
(For instance, in ICS, I like to change to Communism, after building SoL ...and I think it's an ICS attitude.)

The conclusion of the conclusion is : play as you want and have fun !

Beyond the topic : yes, french soccer gamers was disappointing in Korea ... as argentinians !
But look at that : almost the whole french team plays in foreign clubs (UK, Spain, Germany, Italy...) during championships. The actual team representing french soccer is... Senegal, with 21 gamers (out of 23) playing in french clubs !

	13-06-2002 00:14									#21
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Yes - just because it is our native tongue does not mean that we actually speak it well! and we certainly don't type/spell it well at all ...

Just worship the deity ICS - she accepts all tributes however pure or unclean ...

SG[1] - in Fundy

	13-06-2002 04:17									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Just worship the deity ICS - she accepts all tributes however pure or unclean ... SG[1] - in Fundy

fundy is fun..... tell me SG[1] do you ever build the ship and win that way , or is it pure anarchy and bloodshed following you around?

	13-06-2002 11:50									#23
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Warz,
I occasionally OCC - so I know what a SS is, but generally you have the right of it -- anarchy and blooshed rules

SG[1]

	13-06-2002 13:02									#24
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever fundy is fun..... do you ever build the ship and win that way...?

Personally, I play to reach AC the most times, when I play OCC or to maximize the score ; democracy is the best gov in that case.
When I choose an ICS attitude, the logical aim is the early conquest of the world, by Commie or Fundie.
But is SSC building coherent with an ICS attitude ? I doubt of it , but, after all, strategies are made to be combined as this thread teachs.

	13-06-2002 21:27									#25
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With a true ICS attitude, why have an SSC. You just take science with the sword.

	13-06-2002 23:08									#26
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Of course, you can't get AHEAD in science by taking it from other civs.

	14-06-2002 03:56									#27
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Who cares. Once you've got monarchy and knights, it's time to kill people.

	14-06-2002 04:14									#28
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yes but on large maps with islands....... knights wont' do the trick....i use the SSC in my ics games to fuel my ever increasing need to showcase my superior technology and when the technology becomes old or predictable...i unleash hell again in another for...

sometimes i send the ship up there..but my hordes find flying perilous at best

	14-06-2002 07:40									#29
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You sound like a wimpy builder.

	14-06-2002 08:31									#30
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lol no, i am an origional warmongering ics having , rape and pillaging Mongol Horde!!!!!

however, i am embarrassed to say that on occasion i have been known to build the damm ship